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  #1  
Old 03-03-2009, 02:45 PM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Turntable Suspension/Isolation

Ok, I'm trying to save some money here by building a suspension system for my three turntables. I have a mobile set up that without question will generate feedback to my turntables. I wanted to build individual coffins for each turntable so it can be easily transported. I'm using 3/4 inch finished plywood. I'm cutting the boxes which will house the turntables 6 inches high. Cutting a base to sit the turntables on. Four "i" screws placed in the center on each side of the base and "i" screws on the inner border of the box. Number 7 rubber bands wrapped to my firm/loose specifications. My question is how much space should be between the base that the turntable is sitting on and the box perimeter and will the "i" screws create a spacing/bumping problem? Any advice or schematics will be greatly appreciate.
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2009, 02:50 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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http://www.wavemusic.com/community/a...0&d=1161559382

is what i did to start...
(no progress on it, still thinking about exactly what i want to do... but soon... _
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Thanks for the picture. I would think that you would need to turn over the frame so that you can put the "i' screw under the inner frame which will now be on top (hope I make sense with that). So in essence the inner frame that is touching your cooler would be where you bolt the i screw and that would be the top of your console. Also because my boxes will be sitting on top of a table with no bottom clearance, I will have to make my box frame a bit higher so the turntable can sink and be flushed with the top. A quick look at a club or someone's console will also clarify some of these issues.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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here's an (admittedly crude) Illustration of what i did...

the lines are rubberbands, the circles are hooks or screws to hold the rubberbands...

good luck!

a little trial and error and you'll get there....

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  #5  
Old 03-03-2009, 04:29 PM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Thanks. I've seen a design where the hooks/screws were on the side of the base not the bottom. Not sure if that makes a difference.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Ok, work has commenced. Question with the design you posted, is the hooks on the bottom of the carriage or on the side?
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:01 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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the hooks/screws are mounted to the bottom,
but the rubberbands do not touch the base
due to the size/shape of the hooks i used...

hth
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2009, 02:59 PM
Lime Twig Lime Twig is offline
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Could I ask a more general question about isolation here?

All the audiophile folks I meet seem to isolate their gear using spikes on speakers, or by creating incredibly heavy consoles.

On the other hand, DJs and nightclubs I've played at often use suspension systems with rubber bands or hanging the turnatbles from the ceiling.

The obvious question here is which is better or worse and for what reasons. My second question is if both are viable options, why does anyone choose to go the suspension route? I personally hate playing nightclubs with bouncy or swing-y consoles!
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:37 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Nobody here uses rubber bands. I tried wrapping them around rolls of tape here, but everyone is used to slabs of steel or stones sitting on top of squash balls on a sturdy table/section of staging or console. The slabs are massively heavy, like peavey cs-800/crown ma5k/etc heavy. They work, so why fight it, are movable (should there be a special setup for a night), and take up less space in console design.

It would however be interesting to measure what difference the 2 approaches actually create.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Special.K Special.K is offline
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for installations we construct all our consoles using thick steel and concrete as long as the club floor can take the weight. We also use ISONOE isolating feet on all our turntables now. We build the plywood exteriea around the frames to neaten it all up and make it look however the client or designer want!

As far as gigs go we transport the ISONOE feet seperately to the turntables (saves on ware) and we try to never leave the turntables in cases and never set them up on cases (hollow boxes are a feedback nightmare) We have some big steel frames or heavy duty keyboard/console stands with 36mm plywood tops, if we can get away with the steel frames in the venue we have concrete pavers "& now some granite slabs" to put on top (the keyboard stands won't take the weight).

Kieren...

Last edited by Special.K : 03-09-2009 at 10:55 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Lime Twig Lime Twig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
Nobody here uses rubber bands.

I first heard the idea for the rubber bands wrapped around empty cat food cans in this forum!
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2009, 11:42 PM
Special.K Special.K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime Twig
I first heard the idea for the rubber bands wrapped around empty cat food cans in this forum!

Yeah but you have to empty the cans and i just can't eat that much cat food without pukeing !!!!!!!!

Kieren....
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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The majority of the clubs I've played or have visited the DJ booths in the U.S. utilize the rubber band suspension system. Yes its a bit unorthodox to spin on them but you get the hang of it after a while. Hip Hop Djs who scratch hates the rubberband suspension system but if you are a mix master, it should be relatively easy to adjust to them. Because I'm going to be doing a lot of mobile gigs and because my sound system is massive, I need to have a system that is both portable and functional. So heavy concrete slabs and steel are out of the question. I am basically "trying" to build a case around each turntable (3 in all yikes!) that have its own suspension. Each turntable is being transported in its own flight case. Once I'm at a gig, I simple place the suspension system on a table and put the turntable on it and voila!
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garage At Large
The majority of the clubs I've played or have visited the DJ booths in the U.S. utilize the rubber band suspension system.

Not here in California. I've never seen a single club with that set up. When isolation is a concern out here they always go the hanginng from the ceiling route. I HATE hanging consoles, they sway which is really annoying.
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2009, 09:55 AM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Kevin I know what you mean working the hanging suspension. You might as well be dee jaying on a swing. Back in 1984, I lived in LA for about 18 months and I think two clubs that I dee jayed at had rubberband suspension. I think if I remember correctly their names were Carolina West near LAX and a club called 826 near Beverly Hills. In New York most of the clubs utilize rubber band suspension isolation.
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2009, 11:45 AM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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If one is looking to trasnport a mobile sound system, the weight of a couple steel plates is not going to slow down the truck. if anything, carrying floating suspension cases for turntables is a bigger annoyance due to increased bulk. The steel plates came out of the rental industry. Altho heavy, they are only about a cm thick and only as big as a turntable footprint.
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2009, 01:48 PM
Lime Twig Lime Twig is offline
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If the issue is portability for mobile systems, I can understand not wanting to drag concrete slabs or steel plates to each gig. That said, all the rubber band/ceiling suspended systems I've played on were permanent club installs. I'd love to know if there was a sonic or functional reason for that system.

Also: what about using speaker spikes to isolate a console? I'm picturing the turntables sitting on a steel plate, slabs (or even multiple sheets of MDF - very heavy and very good for sound dampening) with 6 or so speaker spikes to mount it on a table/console below. Surely that would isolate them pretty well?
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2009, 08:53 PM
Special.K Special.K is offline
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I've suspended consoles before to deal with vibrating floors/stages but when posible i construct solid hanging frames, If i have to use FSWR cables to hang it i spred the cables out at least 3ft each side and 1ft front and back then we sling it to the floor useing rubber bungie straps (to stop the swaying).
Even with a hanging swstem it still helps to make it heavy and we still use concrete pavers or granite under the decks!

Note, Although i have hung a lot of consoles i think most of them were for looks only, the benifits are far out weighted buy the issues created. I beleive i can build a console to isolate most rooms without having to resort to flying it. Though it is cheaper and it requires less thought to design.

For a mobile setup, think vibration isolation and unless you copy a proven isolating system you might find you are in for a lot of experiments and mock-up's.

Mobile options as i see it (i'm sure i missed some) -
rubber bands/straps,
off the shelf turntable feet,
vibration isolating air bags & compressor (expencive option but by adjusting the pressure it will adjust the freqency it isolates),
isolation rubber (firestone make a thing called a marshmellow),
stone under the turntables

All these options would be better in the stand than in the turntable cases But in saying that if you play around you'll get the result you are looking for!

I do things my way but i have a workshop capable of most of the metalwork & woodwork needed, plenty meterials to screw around with mock-ups plus i can justify spending money on my idea's so things are easer in my world!

Oh yeah, as the SL1200 is not perfectly ballanced if you go the rubberband option you might need more bands in one corner and less in the other!

Kieren.

Kieren.
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  #19  
Old 03-11-2009, 01:54 PM
Garage At Large Garage At Large is offline
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Thanks Special K. Good options. Also I didn't know the 1200s are not evenly balanced. Good to know that. Peace!
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2009, 02:58 PM
rrwilber rrwilber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin James
Not here in California. I've never seen a single club with that set up. When isolation is a concern out here they always go the hanginng from the ceiling route. I HATE hanging consoles, they sway which is really annoying.

Kevin - Big Heart City and 1015 had these types of setup at one time. I believe one of the big sound guys from back in the heyday had a console with it too.
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  #21  
Old 03-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrwilber
Kevin - Big Heart City and 1015 had these types of setup at one time. I believe one of the big sound guys from back in the heyday had a console with it too.


Wow... Big Heart City... haven't heard that name in YEARS lol forgot about that place.

Now that I think about it 177 Townsend would have had a suspension system too I guess, cuz they did have an RLA console which I'm sure had it. Either way though its still very rare out here and your far more likely to see the console hung from the ceiling.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:08 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special.K
Oh yeah, as the SL1200 is not perfectly ballanced if you go the rubberband option you might need more bands in one corner and less in the other!

the lack of balance also makes airbag suspensions a lil weird.

an idea i just had would be to try those thick rubber pads used to isolate washing machines or other heavy machinery. I think they cost 20 euro at the home improvement stores here. Those would certainly be cheaper and lighter than steel plates.

Consoles with steel spikes would be a nightmare to finished floors should the unit be bumped.
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:14 PM
Lime Twig Lime Twig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
Consoles with steel spikes would be a nightmare to finished floors should the unit be bumped.

I'm thinking more of the turntables being on a surface that was spiked and sitting on another surface, rather than the whole console being spiked.

I should have explained that better: picture a table with two tops, one very heavy one on top of the other with spikes in between. Would that provide good isolation?
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2009, 08:18 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Sound complicated for mobile use. Actually, consoles in general are complicated for mobile use. You must have a box truck to carry one, which cancels out use for smaller parties which could still need isolation. Is the console itself a case with wheels or do you build yet another case to transport it? You still need to transport the decks in their own cases, so that is a massive additional piece of bulk to pack.

Having set up a numbing amount of mobile rigs in the last years, it is much more work friendly to have a sturdy stage section sized table with 100 cm legs and everything separately cased and simply a few plates and balls to take care of the vibrations. I can set up a table on my own this way, and have space for comfortably (quickly) plugging everything and conducting any troubleshooting. You don't always have all day to dick around or enough people to help when setting up mobile rigs.
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  #25  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:19 PM
Special.K Special.K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
the lack of balance also makes airbag suspensions a lil weird.

an idea i just had would be to try those thick rubber pads used to isolate washing machines or other heavy machinery. I think they cost 20 euro at the home improvement stores here. Those would certainly be cheaper and lighter than steel plates.

Consoles with steel spikes would be a nightmare to finished floors should the unit be bumped.

Actully, i find the hardest thing about the airbags (and the thing that rules them out for a mobile setup) is the weight needed onto of them, even the smallest Firestone MLM bag requires 140kg to operate well makeing the top of the console having to weight 560kg plus........ not very practical at all!!!!!!!!

Kieren.
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