Wave Music Home
ReleasesCommunityYour OrderWave Music
ArtistsEventsDJ MixesShop

Wave Music Home


Home
About Us
Labels
Distributed Labels
Links




Search


Adv. Search



Subscribe


Email






Go Back   Wave Music Community Board > Tech Talk for Gearheads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 4.33 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-19-2006, 03:48 PM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
subwoofer advice

Ok i think im going to lose my mind!!! I finished buiding my new enclosers for 15" B & C 15 pzb100 . I built the enclosers to B&C's website recommended sub enclosers. I have 2 of them under the DJ booth of my place. The Dance area is small only 20ft by 60 ft. Space is limited, i only have 24 inchs hight by 40 long and 40 deep under the DJ booth and there is no other place in the room to put subs. I just dont like the way they sound! Is the location of the subs the problem or the boxes not designed right? I thought putting the subs in one location sounded better with less cancellation? Im almost ready to put my saw and screw gun away and just buy a sub that will fit! EAW has some that will fit in that size area like the sb-1000zr,sb-625z,sbx220 Has anyone used these models or has any other sugestions? I will post a pic tomm of the area im trying to cover tomm.

Thanks
Henry
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-19-2006, 03:50 PM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
I dont know if this matters but im coming from the mixer to the rla then from the sub out of the rla into my crown 2400.

Henry
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:07 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
Im thinking you cant live without the kick of a folded horn. Thats what I think!

I am using ported subs for their deepness of bottom end, but my stacks are still all horn loaded and have that KICK that makes dance music work.

For what it is you are looking for, I strongly recommend a few Cerwin-Vega L-36 Junior Earthquake cabinets, and maybe a bit more power than the 2400.

Ported boxes play deeper and cleaner, but arent known for the kick that drives a dancefloor.
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:08 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
Which EAW cabinets are you looking at?

Have you HEARD them, and KNOW they sound the way you want them to?

You gotta "know" what it is your looking for too.
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:34 PM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
Im really not sure whats wrong! But its driving me crazy! My biges problem is the space that im limited with! I only have 24 inch hight, 40 wide, 40 deep. The eaw's that will fit are these models sb-1000zr, sb-625z, sbx220 but i never used any of them.

Henry
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:39 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
Im thinking you could take two Cerwin Vega Junior Earthquakes, lay them on their sides coupled together for increased flare of the horn mouth, and get what you desire.

Ill check the dimensions of the cabinets.
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:44 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
The Vegas H x W x D is 36``h, 24``w, 24``d.

So, you could take two Junior Earthquakes, put them on their sides, butt them together for a big mouth, and be only 24in high. This WILL work, give you the output and type of sound your looking for.
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:47 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
http://www.cerwin-vega.com/products/newpro/index.html

Click on Vega Bass to see the 3 cabinets they have available, and on each of the 3 cabinets to see the specs of each one.

And one each per channel of the 2400 will work, or you could do a bridge mono configuration that rocks too!

I know these cabinets, have heard them many, many times, and I know they will do what you want them too.

__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-19-2006, 06:13 PM
DSA.audio's Avatar
DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,334
I like my CV SL36 horns....
__________________
.............................

the Mistick Krewe account is temp. disabled,


forgive the ressurection of DSA.audio please...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-19-2006, 08:06 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
For a few dollars more you can go with the EL-36B, its a bit deeper, 36``d, but it has the Elephant Motor woofer. This woofer has double stacked magnets, and is a MOOSE!

The EL-36B which replaced the SL-36 works well, and I couldnt see you not being happy with two of these set up as prescribed.

However, among these three versions is what you are looking for.

I myself, would venture out to Sam Ash, or whoever sells Vega, and Im sure they sell Vega in Manhattan, and Brooklyn too, and listen to them!
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-19-2006, 08:41 PM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
I have used them in the past i just thought they were alot biggger? I will do some research on them this week! Thanks for all your help! Is the Eldo still open or r u closed for the winter?

Henry
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-19-2006, 08:54 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
Two more weekends, just Sat and Sun, then Nov 1st, BOOM ,closed, winter maintenance begins.

But, you know my email, you want to visit, just holler.

Your welcome for the advice, I know if you get these youll be happy, and they dont cost as much as some other brands, and they do work and put out dance club bottom.

__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:31 PM
DSA.audio's Avatar
DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,334
sometimes you can find them on the secondary market as well....

(for those not able to get a business expense
deduction when buying cool toys )


When I was looking, I found that it was hard to find direct radiating boxes that would keep up (w/o getting a shitload of large, high powered, high performance subwoofers, I guess)

I think it may be attributable to the efficiency differences between the VOTTS I have and the non-horn loaded subs i tried? (and that they were relatively cheaps home models... but all 15"s)
__________________
.............................

the Mistick Krewe account is temp. disabled,


forgive the ressurection of DSA.audio please...

Last edited by DSA.audio : 10-19-2006 at 09:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:52 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
I agree, the used market does sometimes have bargains available. But, in this particular case, it is for a buisiness, so I recommend buying NEW, NO headaches, he does want to pund em, you never know what your getting off fleaBay!

About direct radiating, ported subs not being able to keep up with horn loaded bass, ITS TRUE! This is where you would need, in my case, EIGHT 18,s and MASSIVE power. One Levan Horn with only TWO 18,s and a hell of a lot less power can put out the same SPL.

But, also in my case, AINT got the room for a Levan Horn! And I NEED deeper bass than the J Horns can do. But, I still have the horn loaded KICK from my stacks. Combination sound for me that will work well.

Now, in Henrys case, he has no big stacks, with all horn loaded 15,s and 18,s, so he needs some horns. IMHO, Vega 36,s sound good, and they do kick, and growl, do that dancey bottom he is looking for. two of these and the one amp he has should KICK SOME ASS!
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:03 PM
DSA.audio's Avatar
DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,334
yep -- I agree about buying new for business purposes if you can afford to do so, and they are very reasonable too....


I thought it was about the efficiency matching....

love that horn kick.... I think this is one of the key areas that alot of prosound or PA guys just don't get it when doing EDM acts.... too worried about super clean bass.... I like it dirty...
__________________
.............................

the Mistick Krewe account is temp. disabled,


forgive the ressurection of DSA.audio please...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:10 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
Well, I have heard ported boxes sound muddy and garbled too!

It mostly depends on the systems set up, many times, especially with rigs rented out for dance partys and many clubs too, what you sometimes are really hearing is the overuse of limiters!

Then, theres the music source material itself, if its mixed terribly, with a muddy, over pumped up extreme bottom, aint nothing gonna fix that, no horn no nothing. The horn just lets you hear MORE of how bad a recording is!

And Ive heard complete horn systems that fail to impress as well.
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:16 PM
djmariog djmariog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 825
Henry
This is what i am pleased with. LS800P - Powered Subwoofer, 1500w, 1x18 inch. http://yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=213
__________________
djmariog@aol.com
Mario G.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:17 PM
djmariog djmariog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 825
or http://eaw.com/products/LA400.html
__________________
djmariog@aol.com
Mario G.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:27 PM
djmariog djmariog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 825
Henry

This also may work at your place.

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/1JwtmHDE933261Tnb
__________________
djmariog@aol.com
Mario G.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:22 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,005
YOu say you built your current subs. If you have the wood skills to build your own I STRONGLY suggest you take a look at the folded horn Tuba & Titan sub designs from Bill Fitzmaurice.

Check out his website at www.billfitzmaurice.com he has a user forum also which is awsome! He really does a great job at answering questions. His subs are all folded horn designs and will blow the Cerwin Vegas or LA400's out of the water with way cleaner and deeper bass. Much longer horn path than the vegas with the same mouth area.

If you can fit the CV EL36B or an LA400 you can fit a Tuba 36H (horizontal baffle) in a slim 24 inch wide version. Dimensions on the Tuba 36H slim are 36 high x 36 deep x 24 wide. Loaded with a single Eminence Definimax 4015lf it will KILL that vega. You could also go with dual Eminence Definimax 12's if you can go 25 inches wide.

Don't take my word for it....... ask Never Obsolete who is also on this forum. He built 8 of them and has stated that a 2x2 cluster of four of them put out enough bass that it induced nose bleeds.

Also just to clarify I have no affiliation with Bill and will not gain anything other than hearing about the smile they put on your face if you build them.

Seriousley man, check out his site and browse his Tuba & Titan sub designs and his user forum also for research. There is also a 100+ page thread about his designs in the amps/speaker section of djforums.com with loads of people who have built his designs. YOu WON"T be disapointed.

Oh almost forgot.... he gives you the measurment charts too.......... unlike Cerwin Vega, EAW, etc..
__________________
Download my latest mixes here
http://house-mixes.com/artists/Kevin_James
New mix added 11/28/09

Watch me spin live Saturdays 3-5PM PST here
http://www.stickam.com/faderwaveradio

Baba Booey!

Last edited by Kevin James : 10-19-2006 at 11:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:14 AM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
LOL Mario that was a funny clip i think i should forget the sub and get a female magician! I think buisness will pick up (more guys at lest)!lol!! For the price i think the cervin vegas are the best bet! Although i just played around with the levels on the rla and levels on the 2400 and the boxes dont sound horrible. Not what i want but just like Scott said They miss something that horn loaded subs have! I can only fit one vega but i think for what i need it for it will be plenty! For the cost of wood and material i can buy a vegas and still save some money then starting from scratch again to build my own horn loaded cabinet! I love to build stuff but i just want to get this project finished already! Scott what night is better to come to the Eldo Is monday night ok or Friday?

Henry
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:21 AM
NeverObsolete NeverObsolete is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Upper New York State
Posts: 538
Send a message via MSN to NeverObsolete Send a message via Yahoo to NeverObsolete
Kevin James has a point. I have built the Tuba 36 and I have eight of them as stated. There is no compliant from me sound wise. The bass is musical and very solid. When you couple them together they are something to reckon with.

Yes, with all eight and Crest 9001 (that's my combination) the setup did cause a femail to have a nose bleed. I have since changed that to a more reserved level when playing out. However, compared to the CV, Bill F design beats the vega in all areas of performance.


Go to the site and check it out. There is a forum in which you can read all the input and questions about the Tuba design. And considering the cost and ease of build you won't go wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-20-2006, 07:50 AM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: berlin
Posts: 819
A well designed horn will have much lower distortion, more output, and be more in in phase with itself over the operating band. For the given size, a ported box can go lower. Grouping horns together increases sensitivity, directionality, and allows hte boxes to be played lower. You dont get that with grouping ported boxes, but they are easier to build and design. As one walks closer a ported box, the bass gets louder and louder, versus a horn which seems to "throw" the bass further.

Dont go for hte vegas. Maybe they are good for playing a snappy chest kick thing, but they dont go low at all. If your music has any synth bass or lower stringed bass guitar, you wont get it and it is such a totally different experience having frequencies you cant hear swimming all around. Finding the resonant frequency of arm hair is quite interesting!

I use both styles, depending on material availability and budgets. The horns I use have usually been old turbosound tse-218s uncoupled under the tops. Clean bass, loud, could go lower for my taste. I have also paired eaw 2x18 ported together and my current job has a mobile dynachord cobra system, so we have a bunch of single 18s. The ported boxes seem very good matches for small dancefloors, go lower, are smaller so you can put more together, but also have the natural harmonics (distortion) that ported speakers generate. This isnt such a bad thing, because people are well used to distortion and some even prefer it. If the low pass is 80hz, you will still feel a lot of kick from the harmonics above. I prefer clean, sterile bass and systems in general, but only because it allows every bit of detail in the music to come through. Warmth may be pleasing, but it must also be masking by definition.

Still more to think about are bandpass and ported horns. We also have 2 D & B bandpass subs. B1 or B2, i forget as we have both, but they are freakin monsters. Stacked together they are larger than the main section of a bertha, but can put out crazy bass. An examle of ported horns are the W- bins. These have a short horn, perhaps good for kick impact, and porting, which lowers the cutoff. In the club we have 4 gauss loaded double 15 versions. Maybe its hte room loading or any leaks in the cabs, but for beat up 20 year old boxes they provide some fun. They are not playing super low, but also out of concern for protection of hte drivers.

Depending, a bandpass or a ported design might have the best results if you are fitting the sub in the booth and only need to cover hte direct area in front of it. Otherwise, go for one of those tubas. The horns on the vegas are simply too short
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-20-2006, 12:30 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,946
You know, guys, for the price, the vegas sound good, and they WORK! Is there better? Yes, there is, but at what cost, and/or does the user WANT to build them, or buy them ready made?

Horns can be tricky to get right, even horns that seem simple enough! If you make a mistake with the horn flare, it doesnt work as intended. No one has asked henry what he wants to do, build or buy?

Tom Danley is acknowledged as pretty much one of the best horn builder/designers there is, www.thesoundbroker.com, this works too, and probably does sound somewhat better than the Vegas, and also cost more as well.

What I offered up was an easy, cost effective solutution, that can be put to use right away.

About ported subs, well, they can sound reeally good, they are shorter throw than a horn, I actually find myself wanting a shorter throw than my J Horns in MY room! But with ported subs, you need lots of woofer cones, and power to get that BIG BOTTOM.

BTW, WHO says that when you cluster ported boxes you dont get mutual coupling? That isnt true! Yes you do! You most certainly will get increased efficiency and SPL from mutually coupling ported cabinets together!

What you get when you group horns, is a larger mouth, which effectively lowers the horn flare rate, and you get increased efficiency AND they get down lower!

If Henry wants to build Tuba horns, I have no problem with that, but, this aint gonna happen overnight, Vega, or any other factory made, store bought product gets him into action right away.

Thats the point!
__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin

Last edited by clubman5 : 10-20-2006 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-20-2006, 03:14 PM
thedjay thedjay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 276
I want to thank everyone for there HELP and ADVICE! I saw the tubas before but for the price and time frame the Vegas will be the best bet! The ab-36b or the el-36b. Remember my place isnt a dance club. Its a restaurant / lounge when sometime we have a small party 50-75 people. Like On the 28th we have a halloween party. www.myspace.com/dishbayridge So we will need some BASS! But not every weekend do we pump up the sound system! Im really only doing all this work for my own Hobbie. Here is a pic of my C02 system in action.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	djboothnewmini.JPG
Views:	227
Size:	40.0 KB
ID:	1044  

Last edited by thedjay : 10-20-2006 at 03:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2006 Wave Music


© Wave Entertainment Group, Inc.