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  #26  
Old 12-28-2013, 06:57 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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I've owned the following Ortofon's

VMS-30, 510 mk1, 2M Blue, OM Pro, Pro S, DJ s, DJ e, Arkiv, Night Club S, Night Club E mk1 and used a whole load of others that weren't mine at other peoples houses.
I can't speak on the Super OM's or other OM hi-fi tips as I've only ever used a super om 10 at a friends place who has a Rega P25 but it sounded so wrong I'm going to say he didn't have it set up right or there was something wrong with the phono stage loading.

The only ones I found half decent were the VMS and 510 from the hi-fi range, mainly the VMS as it didn't have "that" Ortofon sound where it sounds like the loudness button is pressed.

When I brought the 2M Blue (This is part of Ortofon's brand new flagship Moving Magnet range that replaces the OM series) I was still using Night Club E's.
The 2M Blue was the biggest disappointment in the history of errrr yea what ever, any way the difference between that and the NCE was minimal.
Yes the 2M Blue had a slightly less sibilant top and a slightly more refined mid... When I say slightly, I really do mean slightly, the output was still crazy loud, cantilever was still big and suspension seemed still very stiff.
Not to mention that sound was still present.. Big wide mids and a boosted top end.

If you check out early reviews in decent mags that tend to be less biased they will confirm the poor tracking of the hi-fi tips and a frequency response that rises with frequency (confirmed by graphs and other tests) They still gave it top marks though and basically said phoa kids will love this haha Even though stuff like the AT 440MLa and other Nagaoka's all sound and perform better than the Ort.

This like a lot of cheap speakers it's done imo to impress in the showroom and make other products sound "bad" and "dull", the slight boost in highs makes it sound "detailed" and people love that especially when a lot of them are coming from CD (This isn't a dig at CD's but the way stuff is mastered to CD rather, check Reticuli's post some where back a bit)
With a lot of this modern music it can sound impressive albeit fatiguing after a while... Thing is play something with real instruments and you soon think wtf is this shieat trumpets don't sound like this

Where does dance music come into this? Ahh yes well a lot of modern cuts sound pretty nasty, they are cut incredibly loud and with a lot of HF.

In a interview with Ron Murphy he expressed his dissatisfaction with the Neumann lathe (probs the most common one out there) saying it's not that nice for cutting 12" singles, emphasising the fact that it distorts the high frequencies and it needs to be modified to cut a good loud dance cut.
He said a lot of people called him and asked him how to do it..Any way Ron used a Scully lathe (Not sure of the model)

I think a lot of deaf producers also ask for it too, a friend of mine who runs a small record label said to me his mastering and cutting engineer was the first one who told him "You are the first person not to ask me to boost the highs or to make the cut super loud"
There are a lot of clowns who have money and can buy a lathe now too..
So preferably you need a cart that can be able to track these far from perfect cuts and also not sound like ass.

Vinyl is pretty much dead now days compared to what it was in it's heyday which is why there is such little choice at this end of the market, all the big boys pulled out as it's too expensive. Dwindling market/return.
Where it's still big is the niche high end stuff, unfortunately I do not want to dedicate my life spending millions on Koetsu cartridges and turntables made out of solid gold hahah
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Last edited by vinyl_junkie : 12-28-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2013, 03:50 PM
1620_nz 1620_nz is offline
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Yep, quality vinyl is becomming a lost art. So many re-issues but few of them live upto the original pressings.

Ron Murphy @ NSC was a big loss to Techno, really loved his work, you can be digging a 2nd hand record shop and put a record on the 1200 and you know Ron cut it without even looking for "NSC" in the runout grooves. I recently replaced some knackered Basic Channel/ Maurizio 12"s which were cut by Ron and sounded really natural, I replaced them with the Dubplates & Mastering re-cuts and they don't sound nearly as nice (but they are louder, not that i care).

Nilz @ Exchange could also cut loud without removing dynamic. One of my faves has to be Herb Power Jr. Such a pity that these days he's not cutting vinyl but mastering hip-hop records too hot.

Mark Richardson cuts nice natural sounding vinyl, dynamic but a little quiet by todays 'loudness wars' standards, but i guess thats what the volume / input gain knob is for. (I don't know what happened with his mastering of Round Two "New Day" on Mainstreet Records though).

Last edited by 1620_nz : 12-28-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2013, 03:44 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1620_nz
It's just so hard. Is there no "go to" cart / styli for minimal record wear with excellent sound quality.

I currently have the Ortofon NCE MK.1 OM's which need new styli....Is there any nice styli compatible with this cart body?

I was thinking of upgrading to the Grado DJ 200's but the hum puts me off, especially as here in NZ we use 220-240V.


I swear I'll never touch any digital DJ equipment, but I can see why people make the change

Either put some OM5E tips on them if you don't care about record wear (calibrate them properly... no 1 gram dicking around just because they can track it in the macro sense) or get those AT carbon fiber ones and stop fussing. This shit will drive you crazy. Your vinyl's going to be useless anyway eventually with all this cart switching. You'll have worn every nanometer of the groove. Spin and get back to the tunes. That's one of the few advantages to all this digital lifeless zombie stuff I'm doing now... more about the music and less about the gear. Oh laudy... so much to choose from. Sure, most of it is mastered pretty bad compared to old wax cuts, but what can you do, bro...?
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2013, 03:51 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1620_nz
Yep, quality vinyl is becomming a lost art. So many re-issues but few of them live upto the original pressings.

Ron Murphy @ NSC was a big loss to Techno, really loved his work, you can be digging a 2nd hand record shop and put a record on the 1200 and you know Ron cut it without even looking for "NSC" in the runout grooves. I recently replaced some knackered Basic Channel/ Maurizio 12"s which were cut by Ron and sounded really natural, I replaced them with the Dubplates & Mastering re-cuts and they don't sound nearly as nice (but they are louder, not that i care).

Nilz @ Exchange could also cut loud without removing dynamic. One of my faves has to be Herb Power Jr. Such a pity that these days he's not cutting vinyl but mastering hip-hop records too hot.

Mark Richardson cuts nice natural sounding vinyl, dynamic but a little quiet by todays 'loudness wars' standards, but i guess thats what the volume / input gain knob is for. (I don't know what happened with his mastering of Round Two "New Day" on Mainstreet Records though).

Quiet records would give me butterflies in my tummy when I'd first put them on a deck, I guess because I knew something special was about to happen on some level when I cranked the volume as soon as I realized they were very conservative masters. I wouldn't even think logically about it, just anticipated it emotionally. Anything super hot or cluttered sounding wasn't even going to last long before it'd start sounding like muck on playback. Experience I guess conditioned me in the opposite direction of the loudness wars. I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor.
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Last edited by Reticuli : 12-29-2013 at 03:55 AM.
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2013, 05:35 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Never tried these but they seem to be quite popular with people wanting either a cheap cart or something to play boot fair records with.
The Rega Carbon.. It's a Audio Technica AT91 but branded Rega and with a Carbon cantilever. Don't think there are any other changes?

It's a cheap spherical tip hi-fi cart, only thing is the low 2.5mv output.

They look cool and are very cheap at 25-30 a pop, this is what the Shure M35x also used to cost before the price hike :-(
I'd like to try one but not sure why, pretty sure they won't even touch a Stanton and the M35x is still a better cheap modern day choice over any Ortofon imo if all you want to do is play/mix music i.e. no crazy Q Bert shiz
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  #31  
Old 12-29-2013, 05:57 PM
1620_nz 1620_nz is offline
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NOOOOOOOO! Don't confuse me anymore.




I don't mind spending money as vinyl is my only vice (i don't drink/ smoke/ drugs). I just want really nice sound with super low record wear. I'm into New York style 'smooth' mixing, so no ripping/ cutting it up Detroit/ Chicago style ala Jeff Mills/ Derrick May (they are my heros but i love my records too much to mix like them!).

I'm using an original Rane 2016, this should'nt make too much of a magnetic field for the Grados?

Last edited by 1620_nz : 12-29-2013 at 06:05 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:26 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1620_nz
NOOOOOOOO! Don't confuse me anymore.




I don't mind spending money as vinyl is my only vice (i don't drink/ smoke/ drugs). I just want really nice sound with super low record wear. I'm into New York style 'smooth' mixing, so no ripping/ cutting it up Detroit/ Chicago style ala Jeff Mills/ Derrick May (they are my heros but i love my records too much to mix like them!).

I'm using an original Rane 2016, this should'nt make too much of a magnetic field for the Grados?

Don't think so, the 2016 PSU is external on the old ones...

Now to understand my problems, here is a old-ish pic of my setup..


Forget the Bozak there I'll get to that later on, when I had the Urei mounted there it's internal PSU was picked up.. Where the amp is, the needles picked it up and I had to move it! (Those are input select buttons not some kind of crazy eq setting lol)

When I got the Bozak, I am using a step down transformer. That is some bad juju right there, even when it's far the Grado's pick it up.
When I had the Urei it was kind of acceptable, I mean you wouldn't notice it on music and it was near the noise floor of the LE but with the Bozak daimn, it's also a quieter mixer so you tend to notice it more.

Any way give them a go, you may find them ok or it may not bother you.
I'd use them if it wasn't for the hum.
One day when I have money I may put more time into it but at the moment I couldn't care any more... I just want to be able to listen to records really and not give a poo, I hardly mix either, I have more fun playing with synths now days ahaha :-/
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Last edited by vinyl_junkie : 12-29-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:36 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Oh I forgot to add the Grado's don't have a 5mv output but rather 4mv, they changed it but never changed the website :-/

This is a bit annoying cos the Urei is noisy and whilst I don't like high output carts I found the output a bit weak on a mixer like the LE (It's a noise box)

So what is a boy to do? Well I brought dedicated hi-fi phono pre-amps!
But guess what and you'll laugh... This made the hum super obvious! haha
So whilst it wasn't mega hissy (The line in's are more clean than the phono's) you had this obvious hum cos it wasn't covered up by the Urei's shitness and because the Urei has no trim's the output was still quite low from the dedicated phono pre's hahahah With such headaches I thought.. fuck it dude

So now I have the Bozo, 1210's, KEF's and Stanton 680's and it sounds f'ing great! Just need to service the mixer when I actually get a job again. Sure it's nothing a audiophile would jizz over but it sounds good and it's a fun little system.

edit... Also I should point out I read some where the LE was noisier than the original 1620 in it's original state. Personally I thought the LE was a steaming heap of shit although I've been told (By Justin at Isonoe) if modified can sound great.
Basically, once he's done with it she won't sound like a LE any more i.e poo hahah
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Last edited by vinyl_junkie : 12-29-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:55 PM
1620_nz 1620_nz is offline
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Hopefully Grado sort thier sh*t out and make a 5 or 6mV DJ cart with better tracking an no hums!

@ vinyl_junkie; Were you using the DJ200 "i"?

Nice setup, those speakers look nice, can you tell me a bit about them?

I noticed from your profile you are only 2 years older than me but know so much more!
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2013, 08:16 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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They are actually DJ-100i's but I brought 200i styluses when the 100's wore out.
Grado said the 200 body is better (can't remember the technical blurb) but I would of had something in-between a 100 and 200 sound wise.

The speakers are KEF 104aB's, I stuck them in my little studio now though and since I had them there less of my stuff sounds like ass (Before I had some Mackie things)



They are voiced for linearity which can be annoying as they show up imperfections or harshness in your system or bad recordings really easily.
They use the same T27 tweeter every one seems to love and bang on about that was used in the famous BBC LS3/5a but that's where any similarity ends really.

I picked up some other KEF's cheap few years ago, some Reference Model One's which I have in my bedroom with the turntables.
The way I'd describe them? They are some over engineered 3 way coax speaker with a weird band pass type reflex box. I personally prefer the 104's but then again the Model One's are hard to drive and can dip to 2ohms so really I need a better amp to get the most out of them but I'd rather have something simpler that was also easier to drive oh and I don't like floor standing speakers.

Funny fact, the guy who designed them (Andy Jones I think his name is) now works for TAD Japan designing their top of the line consumer speakers and their designs are very similar (well the coax driver any way) but obviously better and using exotic materials such as beryllium which KEF could only dream of in the 90's

Kef 104's http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...104/index.html

Kef Ref Model One's http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...sOn/index.html

Very interesting interview with Andrew about speakers and speaker design
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...2-andrew-jones
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  #36  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinyl_junkie

Funny fact, the guy who designed them (Andy Jones I think his name is) now works for TAD Japan designing their top of the line consumer speakers and their designs are very similar (well the coax driver any way) but obviously better and using exotic materials such as beryllium which KEF could only dream of in the 90's

another funny fact -- Andy Jones also did a design exercise for pioneer's home theater division (big box stores or website direct) where the focus was on good sound/cheap production costs

HERE

they sound pretty good, IMHO esp given the price point and simplicty of the networks

what sort of synths have you been playing with?

I'm in the process of restoring an early one (well sort of, i guess)
-- a 1939 Hammond Model D console organ with a later Leslie and and early DX-20 tone cabinet -- 2A3 amplification!
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  #37  
Old 01-01-2014, 04:59 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Ha yes, he talked about those in the video.
They don't sell them in the UK but from what I have read they are meant to be great for the price. Seems like a really nice guy who's worked with some of the greats (in the uk any way) in speaker design.

Very nice! You ever seen those Hammond Novachord's? Amazing things, would love to see and hear one in the flesh.

Got a bit of a thing for Waldorf's, wavetable madness hahah
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  #38  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:19 PM
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no on the novachord, but yes on a Solovox...
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2014, 11:20 PM
CJ Branda CJ Branda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinyl_junkie
Don't think so, the 2016 PSU is external on the old ones...

Now to understand my problems, here is a old-ish pic of my setup..

What happened to your lolipop (stick) headphone VJ? I remember seeing it in some of your pics a while back...
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2014, 05:19 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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I don't like them (dildo headphones) so don't really use it but one day I sat down on it by accident (it was on my sofa) and broke it.
Talked with Anthony about fixing it but never got round it as I never really use it, now I heard he passed away due to cancer :-(

He was a great guy and will be missed

I got him into building them for other people. I originally sent him my 700's which I didn't use (don't like MDR-V700's) And said to him, tell you what chop them in two, keep one half and I have the other half.. I'd like to see what this stick headphone thing is all about.
That kind of started it all off.

I got scoliosis of the spine and stick headphones for me are like the most evil in the world haha
My personal favourite is the Technics RP-DJ1200, the swing arms are great and they sound good too.
A lot of people find them uncomfortable I think but they fit my head very well, are light like the HD25 and very durable
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  #41  
Old 08-28-2014, 02:01 AM
1620_nz 1620_nz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Branda
Hi 1620, yeah that's why I started this thread. Ortofons have the advantage of being modular, meaning that you can fit any Ortofon DJ stylus (Arkiv, DJ S & E, Pro), or hifi stylus (OM5E, OM10, 20, 30) to your existing NCE mk 1 cartridge body. The NCE mk 1 body is the same as an OM body, whereas the NCE mk 2 is the Super OM body. I went for OM10 as they are elliptical and reasonably priced.

When I receive them I am hoping the OM10s will sound more refined than the NCE mk2s, and they track at half the weight also. I'll use them for light mixing and listening at home. If you want to stick with rugged DJ carts then go for a DJ stylus replacement, but if you want improved quality sound then go for a hifi stylus.

Hi CJ,

How did you get on with the OM10's?


Cheers,
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2014, 03:41 PM
CJ Branda CJ Branda is offline
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I like the OM10s for extended periods of listening as they fairly non fatiguing. They do pick up more surface noise and pops in a record but other than that they sound pretty nice to me. For a banging session I switch to NCE mk 2, otherwise for a refined listen the OM10 are hard to beat for the price.
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