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  #26  
Old 07-08-2013, 05:21 PM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurin
Talked with Gary about that topic to.
He told me he tried everything that is on the market and the Powersoft K had the best sound.

Had the chance to listen to some K Amps on a good system and the sound was great.

Same experience here, asked Gary about the choice, they demoed everything he told me..

Tamaracat, have you been to GSA,s d36 system.. Ive heard a few decent systems, that was really the best one Ive heard in a really long while for clean high output nyc nightclub sound.

I love how we talk about Pioneer crap.. lol.. its the standard now.

love it or hate it that pioneer snagged a bunch of old plans based on jbl, rosner/RLA, acoustilog.. good on them for getting it somewhat right.

I heard d36, I could care less what amps were used, I didnt have to ask there were no problems with a good dj using that booth properly
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2013, 07:24 PM
omari7 omari7 is offline
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Tamaracat... all pioneer? NO Tad woofers or drivers?

I wonder what is in Pioneer's version of the Bertha.

Tamaracat... what amp would you choose for the best handling 2ohm, 4ohm loads?

Omari
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2013, 09:39 PM
pbellsound pbellsound is offline
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I too had that conversation with Gary about his turning to Powersoft. That's what he said.

Most of the larger touring companies have chosen Powersoft for amplification. Next by numbers is Lab Gruppen. Of course, JBL systems are powered by Crown.

I demo'd Powersoft and Lab Gruppen amps, right down to a two Ohm load using "real" low frequency program. On the edge, the Lab's lost it. The Powersoft amps sounded just fine no matter what you threw at them.

Often times, it's not about what's in the specs or the test bench results. It's all about what it sounds like to human ears in actual use.
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2013, 04:32 AM
tamaracat tamaracat is offline
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i would use hoellstern amps if needed. most of their modells are made to drive 1 ohms ex factory. all pcbs are 2K dip coated and thats why they can stay in an icecold truck and brought into a moist club and immediately can be turned on. they have an unparalleled damping factor. pricing: you can buy only one hoellstern for 3x powersoft amps. they do NOT intend to export to usa. i know rental companies that run 8x 18" per side, warm up the voice coils and then are ready to go when the whole system has reached 1-2 ohms. all this with an extremly controlled lf-response. only few people can afford and as i said they dont want to export to usa. so gary could not have tested those. the founder is an ex military research guy and has access to components not available to the mass market. so dont start looking, he wont sell to the us.
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:37 AM
pbellsound pbellsound is offline
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I know of Hoellstern amplifiers. They're very highly regarded and I'm certain they're everything you say they are.

However, as they are extremely expensive, I can't imagine any club installation that'll have the budget for a rack full of them. And their limited availability pretty much makes them out of reach to most.
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  #31  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:50 AM
tamaracat tamaracat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbellsound
However, as they are extremely expensive, I can't imagine any club installation that'll have the budget for a rack full of them.

at the end they are extremely cheap because you only need two pieces of their 4-channel dsp versions to drive a really big club sound system.

thats what rental companies do here: they have tiny amp racks you can hardly see.

in my eyes these are the only pro amps with high fidelity sound that double their output power while they halve the impedance down to 1 ohms.

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  #32  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:50 AM
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....not to even mention the long term ramifications of parts
not widely available to the general public....... even when brand spanking new...
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:17 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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Had a Hoellstern demo/shootout (Martin Blackline 218 with W8C) was not impressed at all.
Other amps where Lab and MC2, preferred the MC2.

And for this 30 sec bul*****
Yeah right, whatever...
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:56 PM
pbellsound pbellsound is offline
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I don't think I'd be very comfortable running an entire system on two or three amps. Have one amp go down and the system is so far down on output it's useless.

Also, Pioneer would need to package the system with readily available components no matter what part of the world it's in.
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  #35  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:28 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaracat
i doubt an american company has heard all amps on the market. pure blabla. its about the same when F1 said some years ago we built the best mixing console, we listened to all of them. also pure blabla. human ears can store sounds for 20 seconds. there is no way of comparing "all of them".


going from 230 to 115v is a big deal, so it only makes sense for an american company to test what is available and UL listed

screenshots are forever
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  #36  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:38 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbellsound
I don't think I'd be very comfortable running an entire system on two or three amps. Have one amp go down and the system is so far down on output it's useless.

Also, Pioneer would need to package the system with readily available components no matter what part of the world it's in.

but you do typically rely on just one mixer (barring festival setups) or system controller, no?

amps are pretty simple to swap out, unless they take out drivers when they fail. However, how many times has that happened to you?
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  #37  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:09 PM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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In my many years of club sound reinforcement I have seen rooms run for 10 years with UREI, BOZAK or RANE mixers that only need routine maintenance like pot replacement etc. Realistiicly the strain on a sound system is on the amplifiers and speaker cabinets. Not saying that a couple great amps couldn't do the job but in all the years of my experience we found that a amp rack is more comfortable to the installers with options if a break down occurs. Just look at the massive racks that touring company's use and you usually will see 4 or 5 units in the rack not in use. Many times I have seen an amplifier fail at a club install at the hight of the night and you need that cushion of quantity to insure having the ability of getting the system up and running normally in a couple minutes.

Last edited by Captainjr : 07-11-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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  #38  
Old 07-12-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainjr
In my many years of club sound reinforcement I have seen rooms run for 10 years with UREI, BOZAK or RANE mixers that only need routine maintenance like pot replacement etc. Realistiicly the strain on a sound system is on the amplifiers and speaker cabinets. Not saying that a couple great amps couldn't do the job but in all the years of my experience we found that a amp rack is more comfortable to the installers with options if a break down occurs. Just look at the massive racks that touring company's use and you usually will see 4 or 5 units in the rack not in use. Many times I have seen an amplifier fail at a club install at the hight of the night and you need that cushion of quantity to insure having the ability of getting the system up and running normally in a couple minutes.

when the alternative - in the event of system failure - is clearing an establishment, thus drying up the cash flow....


it makes sense to have a backup plan, IMHO....
I even maintain a few spares of key components in my personal system
so that I can just swap things out at home in the event of the unexpected....
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  #39  
Old 07-12-2013, 09:29 AM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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With Stereo's setup using the Lab Grupen FP+ series.. They have one dedicated channel freed up so that if they do have an issue they can run an extra channel through that spare one on the amp. Amps are built into the cabinets in the stack betweeen the two "jbl 4520" look at this video at around 1minute and youll see the two amps in the stack.. side note: The horn on top is a nexo box with a 10" driver and the TAD 4002 compression driver..
https://vimeo.com/69645588

I must say I dont feel the same output as I did back in the day with solid state from the FP+ Labs.. especially in the low end.. Stereo even removed two of their Berthas saying there was too much bass.. I think the new styled amps push a lot of power and that is why they feel they need less cabinets but I still think the original setup with 6 berthas was better..

In any case Im happy to see a club like Stereo survive after all these years and still be dedicated to good sound.. I think a lot of clubs these days are just trying to get open.. then lights, then sound if there is time or money left..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainjr
In my many years of club sound reinforcement I have seen rooms run for 10 years with UREI, BOZAK or RANE mixers that only need routine maintenance like pot replacement etc. Realistiicly the strain on a sound system is on the amplifiers and speaker cabinets. Not saying that a couple great amps couldn't do the job but in all the years of my experience we found that a amp rack is more comfortable to the installers with options if a break down occurs. Just look at the massive racks that touring company's use and you usually will see 4 or 5 units in the rack not in use. Many times I have seen an amplifier fail at a club install at the hight of the night and you need that cushion of quantity to insure having the ability of getting the system up and running normally in a couple minutes.
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  #40  
Old 07-14-2013, 01:30 PM
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As for price i remember F1 an KV2 having to clear that hurdle.
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  #41  
Old 01-11-2014, 11:10 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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After testing a lot of modern day speaker in the Emerald / Bertha and changing the rear chamber.

I found this really interesting: Klick!

Had the same idea for my 21" Emerald.
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