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  #1  
Old 10-07-2015, 12:51 PM
herbalpudding herbalpudding is offline
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Nagaoka PC-X10

This is interesting. Nagaoka made a cartridge for the Pioneer PLX turntable. I know the reviews of the PLX have been bad, but maybe this cartridge makes it more worthwhile.

http://www.pioneerdj.com/en-us/produ...black/overview

I wonder if there's any reason you couldn't use it with SL-1200. I've never used Nagaoka before, but I've heard they are good. Right now I am using Denon DL-110 and loving them.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2015, 08:33 PM
Richi Richi is offline
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Have only used their Hi-Fi carts for DJing, obviously you have to be more delicate though works well
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2015, 03:16 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Meh 10mv output, spherical tip, above average tracking weight all add up to why not just get a current Shure or Ortofon. DL-110's will run rings around any of these.

Personally I'm not a fan of the Nagaoka carts if what I have is anything to go by. I have a MP-200 with the boron cantilever here I got about a month ago just for listening, whilst it does a lot of things right it's not to my taste and stuck it on ebay

Amongst other things I find their jargon quite confusing, they have inconsistencies in their specs... 100pf recommended load? oookkk
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Last edited by vinyl_junkie : 10-17-2015 at 03:23 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2015, 02:13 AM
Richi Richi is offline
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100pf is a fairly standard capacitance used for cartridge loading, the MP2016 has 150pf.

Have to love the electrical characteristics of cartridges
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2015, 09:53 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richi
100pf is a fairly standard capacitance used for cartridge loading, the MP2016 has 150pf.

Have to love the electrical characteristics of cartridges

That's pre-amp capacitive loading and doesn't include cabling which should be included in the total figure. The recommended loads manufacturers give usually is total capacitance inc cables.

So total capacitive load would be something like 220pf as the Technics phono leads are something like 120pf.

So pre-amp load+cables= Total capacitive load which is why 100pf is kinda unrealistic imo.
At 220pf it still sounds too bright imo, there is a slight peak in the highs on the MP-200 which I don't like and a slight upper mid presence so I'd say it needs more capacitance.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2015, 10:27 PM
Richi Richi is offline
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Yes indeed we cannot remove cable capacitance from cartridge loading circuits. Its a shame that variable capacitors are so expensive as it would be much easier to dial in. Still, there's always methods to add capacitance to a circuit and rotary switches can do the job, though a pain to implement.

Nice write up here about the issue with Nagaoka, this was the older model, look how many pf get the best result, though at a compromise.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html

Certainly there are better budget Hi-Fi carts around.
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2015, 03:30 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richi
Yes indeed we cannot remove cable capacitance from cartridge loading circuits. Its a shame that variable capacitors are so expensive as it would be much easier to dial in. Still, there's always methods to add capacitance to a circuit and rotary switches can do the job, though a pain to implement.

Nice write up here about the issue with Nagaoka, this was the older model, look how many pf get the best result, though at a compromise.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html

Certainly there are better budget Hi-Fi carts around.

Yes this is quite annoying. What's more annoying is how modern pre-amps and amps don't even have a button to change the loading or rarely give you the spec.
Remember those old Technics amps were you could change the resistive and capacitive loading by the push of a button ahhh good times.

It's easier to add capacitance then take it away so makes no sense to me when you have modern pre-amps that already have say 200pf.

I have a feeling that the cheaper Nagaoka's are designed for a higher capacitance.

With low capacitance, the response is the mechanical response of the cantilever.... on the MP11 with aluminium cantilever you get losses due to flex of the cantilever which drops the midrange - on a boron cantilever this should be reduced to at least half or 1/3 the droop, so it might drop by 1db instead of 3 in that midrange trough area... the rise in the high end shown on those graphs around 15kHz or so, are due to the mechanical cantilever resonance due to its effective mass - the much lower effective mass of a boron cantilever should move this resonance up to well over 20kHz, leaving a much more neutral high end.

It is quite typical of more basic aluminium cantilevered cartridges that high capacitance is needed to boost/fill-out that midrange area, and roll off the high end resonance.

But with a boron cantilevered (ie: high end) cartridge, the capacitance needs to be kept much lower, you won't be needing to generate an electrical resonance in the midrange to boost the trough up, nor will you need to roll off so early to control the mechanical resonance....

The same cartridge body with a basic needle might sound best at 600pf, and with a top notch boron needle might sound best at 150pf .... in fact that would be my expectation.
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