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  #1  
Old 02-17-2010, 04:39 AM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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Bozak Modified Mixers

I was Just wondering if anyone has any information on the new Bozak Mixer coming out? These photo’s popped up but I found out that they have nothing to do with the new product. I contacted Buzzy Beck and was told that they were pictures of the original external power supply offered from the 1980's, that he did for a customer’s older DLC mixer. The other mixer with all the inputs and outputs is a custom unit he is doing for John K. and Mario G. as a special project. Only 2 are getting built but consideration is being done by several original Bozak employees to release their own mixer.
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Last edited by Captainjr : 02-17-2010 at 06:36 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2010, 08:29 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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I like the mixer with all the Line/Phono inputs.

Very slick looking!
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  #3  
Old 02-23-2010, 03:35 AM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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Here are a couple more photos of the custom mixer being built for John K. and Mario G. by Buzzy Beck. He explained most of the project to me but some of the technical information was above my understanding. After being discussed by DJs through many e-mails he received, a list of modifications was suggested. The final prototype has 6 switchable channels that are all pre-programmable from the cue circuit. A total of 4 phonos, up to 10 auxiliaries, plus 2 microphone channels was the final decision. A master balance was decided on to retain the ability of tweaking the overall output when necessary. The Left and Right bass and treble are still used with a new roll off. Here again was the option idea of the DJ being able to tweak a channel with bass and treble when needed. I was really surprised to see a cue/mix/program monitor output to give the ability to mix in the headphones. I was told that this feature seemed to be a must for a lot of DJs that made suggestions for the mixer. LEDs on the cue switch and an output meter is still under consideration. Any thoughts or suggestions on what DJs are looking for in their mixers would be appreciated and passed along to him. There is talk of a couple original employees releasing their own rotary mixer at some point and along with Buzzy they are looking for any reasonable suggestions that will not put the cost of the mixer out of reach.
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Last edited by Captainjr : 02-23-2010 at 03:38 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:49 AM
misterharrison misterharrison is offline
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Personally I'd want to use those five pots across the top for a 5-band master EQ. I've never seen the point of the balance pots or separate L/R EQs. A 5-band EQ, however, would really give the DJ creative control over tweaking the sound.

Well-chosen frequency-bands would open up possibilities for things like:
1st pot: sub-bass
2nd pot: mid-bass
3rd pot: lower-mid
4th pot: upper-mid/lower-highs
5th pot: extreme highs

I like the idea of replacing the channel balance pots with input-select switches, though. Looks good and makes sense. I think I've seen them used for cue-buttons too, toggle-type that light up when pressed and go off when pressed again.
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:33 PM
bartonn bartonn is offline
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I think you are thinking of the Audioarts 5200a which has cue selectors like you described.
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:44 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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same with the Alpha Recording unit...


the Bozak mods look HOTT! Keep up the good works gentlemen!
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:03 PM
jnkarrik jnkarrik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonn
I think you are thinking of the Audioarts 5200a which has cue selectors like you described.

Yeah, right beside a per channel MUTE button. Careful!
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  #8  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:48 PM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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As soon as I saw that pic, I thought the same thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterharrison
Personally I'd want to use those five pots across the top for a 5-band master EQ. I've never seen the point of the balance pots or separate L/R EQs. A 5-band EQ, however, would really give the DJ creative control over tweaking the sound.

Well-chosen frequency-bands would open up possibilities for things like:
1st pot: sub-bass
2nd pot: mid-bass
3rd pot: lower-mid
4th pot: upper-mid/lower-highs
5th pot: extreme highs

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  #9  
Old 02-23-2010, 05:55 PM
Clydebuilt Clydebuilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterharrison
Personally I'd want to use those five pots across the top for a 5-band master EQ. I've never seen the point of the balance pots or separate L/R EQs. A 5-band EQ, however, would really give the DJ creative control over tweaking the sound.

Well-chosen frequency-bands would open up possibilities for things like:
1st pot: sub-bass
2nd pot: mid-bass
3rd pot: lower-mid
4th pot: upper-mid/lower-highs
5th pot: extreme highs


I agree with this also.
I can only think that either cost or space constraints are an issue.

I have a Bozak which I love so I can't see me buying this mixer if it goes into production, unless it had something which elevated it above my mixer to another level.
A 5-band EQ would be something that would make me really consider buying it.

On one hand I can see that the prototype right now allows the owner to pick and choose additional processing units (EQ, isolator, effects) and create a solution to their needs. It also keeps the price down.
On the other hand I think that an in-built 5-band EQ would be a unique selling feature that would generate a huge amount of interest and would be a real evolution of the design.

I think the DJR400 is a great example to compare this concept to:
Everyone lusts after it, in part because of the in-built isolator, however most are put off purchasing it because of the price.

Anyway, this is great news that the original Bozak employees are involved and I hope we see more info soon.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2010, 06:00 PM
Clydebuilt Clydebuilt is offline
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I also think that the 'cue/mix/program monitor output' is a great little feature.
I have this mod on my Bozak and it's very useful.
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2010, 04:18 AM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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Here is a photo of the interior I was provided with. It looks like what you should expect from a person who still loves what he does 20 plus years after the original company closed. Buzzy told me that he realizes there is only a small market for this mixer and it is not a money making project. He wanted to give the true lovers of this style mixer a chance to have input on its construction and options. Another technical fact pointed out to me is that it will have true balanced Booth and Main output XLRs as well as the unbalanced RCA jacks. If you check the first photos I posted you will see it also has 2 extra processing signal outputs that several people here on Wave suggested. A ¼ inch phone jack with tip/ring/sleeve is optional on input channels 1 & 2 as well as the already standard ¼ inch phone plug on the main output.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2010, 12:45 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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What would be the benefit of updating a Bozaks EI power transformer to a toroidal?
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2010, 05:15 PM
Richi Richi is offline
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Toroidal are more efficient and do not generate as much EMI. Though i know some people who prefer them in a PSU as they give a smoother sound or so they say.
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Last edited by Richi : 02-02-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:52 PM
herbalpudding herbalpudding is offline
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Smile Power switch?

This might sound like a stupid question, but where's the power switch on the Bozak mods that have a booth output where the power switch used to be?

Or is it just assumed that you're running power through a power conditioner or something like that? Or is it...magic?

Just curious...
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  #15  
Old 03-04-2010, 12:02 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richi
Toroidal are more efficient and do not generate as much EMI. Though i know some people who prefer them in a PSU as they give a smoother sound or so they say.
I think they do, too! Softer sound I call it.
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  #16  
Old 03-04-2010, 01:21 AM
Truba Truba is offline
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that bozak DLX looks the biz, the only upgrade to bozak i would like to see is to make cds/line out sound better, make it so there is no volume drop when you mix between cds and vinyl and there isnt that much difference, line outs compared to phono ones sound really average and it would be awesome if that can be matched so they sound similar and at the same volume.
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Truba Truba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalpudding
This might sound like a stupid question, but where's the power switch on the Bozak mods that have a booth output where the power switch used to be?

Or is it just assumed that you're running power through a power conditioner or something like that? Or is it...magic?

Just curious...
i got both DL and DLC, DL has a switch, DLC you just plug in, same like urei, no switch.
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:27 PM
thermionic thermionic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richi
Toroidal are more efficient and do not generate as much EMI. Though i know some people who prefer them in a PSU as they give a smoother sound or so they say.

The myth of EI transformers sounding “smoother” is totally unsupported by any theory (you could write many pages on why the concept is wrong-headed), nor has there ever been a listening study, performed by the AES or other respected body, to suggest this is the case. Providing the PSU is designed correctly (with decent filtering and regulation) there should be no difference between the two transformer types, aside from the fact that EI transformers emit copious amounts of airborne interference. People hear what they want to hear...

Clean DC is clean DC How can one type of DC sound “smoother”? What does DC sound like? Any corruption under load or otherwise is the result of poor design – nothing to do with the transformer type.

In order to make clean DC, a PSU has several layers of circuitry that detach its final output from the transformer’s AC waveform. A very basic outline of how a linear power supply works:

The AC output from the transformer is rectified. The AC waveform is chopped into pulses at several megahertz. (Do these radio-frequency pulses sound “smoother” when one type of transformer is used?)

The pulses are then fed to filter capacitors which smooth them into raw DC. These capacitors should be sufficiently specified so as to present a perfect DC waveform to the regulators. If corners are cut on the initial filter caps, the regulators will have a harder job.

This “raw” DC waveform is now fed to the regulators. Page 15 of this PDF shows a schematic for a common regulator: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf Not exactly “minimal” is it? (See what I mean by use of the word “detach”?)

The DC waveform from the regulator is then typically filtered again to ensure any high frequency hash is attenuated.

There will also be local rail decoupling on the audio circuits themselves, thus providing another level of isolation / filtering from the transformer.

Any artefact present on the final DC waveform that is due to the transformer, under any load condition, can only be the result of a poorly designed power supply.

Bryston and ATC use toroidals exclusively. Their amps + crossovers are used in mastering to cut more records than any other brand: http://bryston.com/newsletters/85_files/vol8is5.html

The only EI units I see these days come from China. The most common complaint levelled at toroids is cost, which is why mass-produced gear often uses EIs.

BTW – EI transformers are also mechanically noisy. This may not be an issue in a club, but in a home or studio situation that 50/60hz atonal hum will drive you crazy.
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Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

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  #19  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:39 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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thanks for dropping some science!


nice to see you around, also...
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  #20  
Old 03-04-2010, 10:58 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic
The myth of EI transformers sounding “smoother” is totally unsupported by any theory (you could write many pages on why the concept is wrong-headed), nor has there ever been a listening study, performed by the AES or other respected body, to suggest this is the case. Providing the PSU is designed correctly (with decent filtering and regulation) there should be no difference between the two transformer types, aside from the fact that EI transformers emit copious amounts of airborne interference. People hear what they want to hear...

Clean DC is clean DC How can one type of DC sound “smoother”? What does DC sound like? Any corruption under load or otherwise is the result of poor design – nothing to do with the transformer type.

In order to make clean DC, a PSU has several layers of circuitry that detach its final output from the transformer’s AC waveform. A very basic outline of how a linear power supply works:

The AC output from the transformer is rectified. The AC waveform is chopped into pulses at several megahertz. (Do these radio-frequency pulses sound “smoother” when one type of transformer is used?)

The pulses are then fed to filter capacitors which smooth them into raw DC. These capacitors should be sufficiently specified so as to present a perfect DC waveform to the regulators. If corners are cut on the initial filter caps, the regulators will have a harder job.

This “raw” DC waveform is now fed to the regulators. Page 15 of this PDF shows a schematic for a common regulator: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf Not exactly “minimal” is it? (See what I mean by use of the word “detach”?)

The DC waveform from the regulator is then typically filtered again to ensure any high frequency hash is attenuated.

There will also be local rail decoupling on the audio circuits themselves, thus providing another level of isolation / filtering from the transformer.

Any artefact present on the final DC waveform that is due to the transformer, under any load condition, can only be the result of a poorly designed power supply.

Bryston and ATC use toroidals exclusively. Their amps + crossovers are used in mastering to cut more records than any other brand: http://bryston.com/newsletters/85_files/vol8is5.html

The only EI units I see these days come from China. The most common complaint levelled at toroids is cost, which is why mass-produced gear often uses EIs.

BTW – EI transformers are also mechanically noisy. This may not be an issue in a club, but in a home or studio situation that 50/60hz atonal hum will drive you crazy.
I think audio components that use toroidal have a smoother sound, NOT EI.

PS does have an effect of sound character, too.
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  #21  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:43 AM
Richi Richi is offline
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I am certainly not advocating any technical aspects of transformer types nor did i mention that. I know of people with EE background who have stated they have preferred EI in certain circuits, regardless if it was incorrect, they even stated it should not be so, but alas that's what they ears were telling them.

The only EI that i have ever used in a circuit were on output duty and this was purely an economic reason as full bandwidth toroid's elevate the cost dramatically.

And yes they do generate noise, learned that fact when i was about 7 playing Scalelectrics, could hear the hum over the cars zooming around the track.
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Last edited by Richi : 02-02-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:53 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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IMHO, my ears always say EI transformers give audio gear a slightly harder sound. And sometimes this is good. PUNCH!

I will get dragged thru the mud by a few, but, I listen to what my ears tell me.

AND if you could have the chance to listen to a vintage Bryston 3B, the older versions from the 80,s with EI,s vs the 90,s and onward versions with toroids, I think your ears would agree with my words, even though technical wisdom refutes this as rubbish.
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2010, 05:06 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Some time back, however, someone, I think Buzzy Beck, made reference to the fact that at a certain point of DB below the threshold of audibility, the lower noise factor of a toroid can become negligible. After all, IF something can be measured but not heard, IS IT WORTH IT TO DO?

Of course, if money is no object, but, somehow it always is. Then, maybe you do hear something you like in either design, or how about a manufacturer has to design and build to fit a price range that CAN sell?

Either way, compromises must be made, or you make a decision to manufacture a cost no object unit. But, I myself have heard items, and even use certain items that although not manufactured using the utmost of parts, sound great, and sometimes better than items made with parts of the nnnth caliber.

Then, we also reach a point of diminishing return.There are things available that, while yes technically better, even by a wide margin measured with bench test equipment, only offer ever so slight an improvement audibly. Sometimes the cost vs improvement percentage is not really worth the cost.

If a company made a totally SOTA mixer that cost $10,000, but this mixer only sounded a hair better than any $1500 mixer, and I mean only a hair better, is it worth 10 grand to you? Not to me!
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2010, 05:30 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalpudding
This might sound like a stupid question, but where's the power switch on the Bozak mods that have a booth output where the power switch used to be?

Or is it just assumed that you're running power through a power conditioner or something like that? Or is it...magic?

Just curious...
Years ago, when the Bozak was basically the only high quality mixer available, they used to bypass the power switch, or put it on the back panel.

Used to happen, a DJ inadvertently hit the switch during the night while playing.....
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