Wave Music Home
ReleasesCommunityYour OrderWave Music
ArtistsEventsDJ MixesShop

Wave Music Home


Home
About Us
Labels
Distributed Labels
Links




Search


Adv. Search



Subscribe


Email






Go Back   Wave Music Community Board > Tech Talk for Gearheads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-03-2006, 02:39 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
You guys need to read this from Numark

Tell me what you think of this. They "lost" the original RA# listing on their computer and had to issue me a second one a month after I sent it in, and it's just been sitting there this whole time. They said it was a mistake, but I'm wondering if someone's either screwing with me, someone's trying to cover their own ass on a B-stock item that was sent out with defects and swapped units, or Numark is actively involved with selling gray market units through Ebay vendors that they allow these authorized resellers to list as "B-stock" with Numark warranties. Seriously, if this unit is defective, then every single piece of Numark gear I've ever bought has had serious defects:

2 Axis 8's (it took 9 replacements and 1 repair to get 2 that worked...MIDI defects, CD mechanism defects)

2 TT-200's (one bad platter, one bad tonearm)

1 Matrix 2 mixer (the BNC work lights made the phonos buzz)...they replaced with PPD01 when they refused to try and fix it

1 PPD01 mixer (pops on the unbalanced outs...thankfully I use the digital outs so I've never sent it in)

Now the 5000fx mixer.


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Me
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:55 PM
> > To: Tech
> > Subject: 5000fx
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm not sure what the name of the tech was that I
> > talked to yesterday about my 5000fx, but I was
> > wondering if you could find out if he managed to
> get
> > the same high frequency pops/ticks out of the FX
> > section yet.
> >
> > ra#(deleted)
> >
> > And secondly, I noticed when the 5000fx was here
> > that
> > the phono preamps were quite good compared to the
> > Matrix 2 and PPD01 mixers, which tend to sound
> less
> > clear and extended than the 5000fx's phonos. Are
> > the
> > same or comparable phono preamps found in the
> > PPD9000
> > as in the 5000fx?
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> >
> > Ben

> --- Tech wrote:
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > From what the techs did in testing, they could not
> > find any pops or ticks in
> > the fx section and the digital output was not
> > swapped. Also the preamps
> > found in the 5000FX would be comparable to that is
> > the PPD9000.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Tech
> >


--- I wrote:

> Really? Are you sure it's the same unit I sent to
> you?
>
> Serial #(deleted)
>
> If you just hit the Main Program FX Assign Button
> and
> tap it on and off repeatedly it even does it. Just
> left on it does it intermittently on its own...very
> high pitched ticks. One at least every 20 seconds.
> This happened through every rear output I tested and
> even occured on the headphone jack. With FX
> Unassigned it does not do it. At least one other
> person on djforums.com that bought a 5000fx on my
> recommendation had the exact same problem.
>
> And the coax digital out on this unit definitely had
> the left and right channels swapped. I don't
> understand how it could not be that way on your end.
>
> I tested it on 2 different soundcards (EMU 1212M,
> Aopen 850D), one HK 7200 receiver, and a CD
> recorder.
>
> That is just baffling. So what do we do now?
>
> Ben

--- Tech wrote:

> Hi Benjamin,
>
> Unfortunately the techs were not able to reproduce
> these. This was shipped
> back to you yesterday. If this is still happening
> when it is shipped back,
> definitely give us a call and we can troubleshoot to
> see what might be
> causing this.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tech
>

Last edited by Reticuli : 08-03-2006 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-03-2006, 03:16 PM
DSA.audio's Avatar
DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,346
you have more patience than i -- I would probably have quit buying their products long ago....
__________________

.............................
Doolittle & Seymour Associates
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-03-2006, 03:41 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Yeah, I'm about ready to just charge 5 grand in Pioneer & Technics gear and be done with this company. This was the dispute I just put in through Paypal. Because Numark had the unit for a month and did nothing with it, Paypal replied that it's now too late to do anything. I'll have to see if it's even the same unit they send back.

"The Numark 5000fx mixer was boxed terribly. The "original" box was just the outside box with the styrofoam framing broken into pieces around the mixer. They then just wrapped it a few times in bubble wrap and put it faders side down. When it arrived, two knobs looked horribly scuffed and every line fader was bent way out of shape. I had to straiten all of them myself and a few are not smooth anymore.

The effects section on the unit is defective and produces high frequency ticks, near clipping levels sometimes. The SPDIF coax digital out has the L/R stereo channels swapped. This makes the mixer unusable for professional situations, particularly those high frequency ticks/pops when the FX is switched on.

Deal-Monger then says they will not take the unit back. I got one of those extended warranties for 3 years, so I call Squaretrade. They tell me they cannot replace an ebay unit of suspicious origin and immediately refund the extended warranty. They tell me to contact Deal-Monger again. Deal-Monger tells me "Sorry, but you have to go through Numark." I contact Numark and they say there is no warranty. Deal-Monger then tells me Numark's wrong. So then Numark tells me "Oh, sorry, yes there is a warranty." I send it in, then the unit sits there for a month after they lose the RA#. They have to give me another RA# and didn't confirm the original serial number. They look at "a" unit and say it's completely mint with the coax digital out not swapped and no high frequency ticks out the FX section. Not possible.

Now something is bloody wrong here. This sounds suspiciously like condoned gray market goods. Deal-Monger never even left Ebay feedback for me, though I paid immediately for the mixer. They are waiting for me to leave mine! This tells me they know these may be defective and they are going to give negative feedback if I call them on it. I did everything by the book and every step of the way I've gotten the shaft on this.

Paypal, help!"

Last edited by Reticuli : 08-03-2006 at 03:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-03-2006, 03:55 PM
mynameismatt's Avatar
mynameismatt mynameismatt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 572
Yea, why do you keep buying Numark with all the problems you've been having?

(off-topic: I bought some Bauhaus brand furniture from a local department store and the stuff is falling apart 6 months later. I will never buy that brand or from that store again because of this. The store won't do anything about it.)

Your story reminds me of the time my father bought a Kurzweil synth from Sweetwater Sound in the early 90s (when Sweetwater was smaller). Something was wrong with it and he kept sending it to Sweetwater for repair. They either couldn't duplicate the problem or kept sending back defective synths. Well he got tired of shipping the synth and decided to fly to Indiana with my brother and I and discuss this with them in person. It worked and we got a tour of Sweetwater. Turned out to be a piece of styrofoam stuck under one of the keys.

Last edited by mynameismatt : 08-03-2006 at 03:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2006, 04:40 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
I'd be afraid I'd go postal if I flew to RI to visit Numark.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-05-2006, 04:06 PM
DJ_CARY DJ_CARY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 293
Lesson Learned....NO MORE NUMARK!! Pls.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-05-2006, 05:05 PM
nitred's Avatar
nitred nitred is offline
Samplaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 666
someone's trying to cover their own ass on a B-stock item that was sent out with defects and swapped units

I'd say that's it. All makers resell defective products it's just a part of business, like it or not. In this case it sounds like refurb dealer passed the buck and Numark's people made it worse by dropping the ball.

Specifically , the person that originally processed your return fucked up and started a cycle of "wasn't me ". The tech that was testing the mixer was certainly looking at another unit so the screw up is at the front line of the return processing. Not defence just a possible explanation.

If you want results get the name of the Quality Control Manager or Returns Manager. Put it writing stating the facts and chronology with a request for correction. Using standard methods put you in ctact with the same group trying to sheild their butts. Department heads of any real quality are always looking for ways end shit like this before the company develops a rep for it.

Anytime you buy from channels other than authorized dealer you can usally bet that the maker may have an issue with warranties. I personally don't trust seller that won't back the sale on major items directly. Deal-Monger is all refurb and grey . In fact every item from Numark I could find is either "opened box" or "fact.refurb"
Because the unit was actually accepted by Numark you got lucky that it made it into the factory. Typically refurbs are not recirculated a second time , so the refurb seller usually to eat it or sell it " as is".

As far as your Ext warranty , your unit was covered when they accepted your money. You could have pursued this legally if you were so inclined. Once they took your money a binding contract was in place. The exact same bullshit occurs when you buy EWs from retail stores. It's always a great deal until they have to back it up.

You can dispute the CC charge if you have not paid yet. Looking at the Squre FAQ page there is no doubt you should have been covered.

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/popup_FAQ.html
________
INDICA STRAINS

Last edited by nitred : 04-07-2011 at 03:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:43 AM
Derek Derek is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: do or die
Posts: 17
Send a message via AIM to Derek
Numark claims to really isolate their b-stock from the new stuff by packaging the b-stock and refurb units in plain brown boxes instead of graphic boxes.

Maybe that'll help?
________
5 stage grinders

Last edited by Derek : 04-15-2011 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:18 AM
jmark jmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: SF
Posts: 283
I thought, from the looks of things, that Numark was making an effort to improve their reputation. Apparently I was wrong. Fortunately I've never had the "pleasure" of owning any of their gear.
__________________
-mark

http://www.markandrus.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-07-2006, 07:24 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
The PPD01 B-stock they replaced the Matrix 2 with was in a graphic box direct from Numark. The B-stock 5000fx was in a brown box. Both said B-stock on the boxes. Deal Monger (Channel Velocity) stated they were an authorized refurb seller. Square Trade said since their warranty only kicked in once the original warranty expired, and since the people at Numark I'd corresponded with didn't know about the warranty at the time, Square Trade revoked and refunded the extended warranty, saying they couldn't replace a unit that didn't come with a warranty to begin with. Numark gave an RA# after Deal Monger told me which person to contact at Numark about their "relationship". Then the computer problems, the lost RA#, a month goes by, etc. The unit they sent should arrive in the next few days, so we'll see if it's the same serial number. I am absolutely certain the one I sent in was defective, whether they swapped it, repaired without logging it, or are just idiots who couldn't replicate the defects on two separate occasions on the test bench. The tech I talked to on the phone sounded smart, competent, and respectful, though. A lot of these guys now are from Alesis. The responsible person being further up the chain would indeed make sense.

Last edited by Reticuli : 08-07-2006 at 07:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:58 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
It pains me to say this, but Numark's techs must be idiots or their test gear's fouled up. They sent back the same unit and it took me 5 minutes to replicate all the exact same problems, as well as narrow down exactly when they happen.

The SPDIF out having the left and right channels swapped was by far the easiest to replicate. Hell, you just have to take the balance knob and turn it left and right when using the coax out. The panning action is swapped with it. Then popped in the Ultimate Test CD and the guy saying left is in the right channel and him saying right is in the left channel. Duh. It's all correct through the analog outs. How on earth could a tech working for the richest DJing company in the world miss that when he checked on the test bench twice?

As for the ticks, all you have to do is press any of the channel or main out FX assign buttons on and off and you get a high frequency tick. Leave switched on, especially the main out assign, and the ticks continue happening every 5-10 seconds or so. Interestingly, I noticed it does not do this when the second alpha/numeric LED display on the right is switched for a non-effects function, such as giving a second channel BPM reading. If the second LED is off or being used for one of the effects parameters, it does it. But it clearly does it in every other situation where an input/output is assigned, and the default setup when you first turn the 5000fx on is with the second LED display off. It's remotely possible that they activated the second display before testing, but the SPDIF is swapped no matter what. There's no possible way someone using properly functional test gear who knew what they were doing could have missed that one. So either their gear is screwed up or they're stupid. Since they sent back the same unit and it had remnants of a servicing sticker on the side, I must assume this is the unit they tested.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-09-2006, 03:00 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
On the plus side, the Nightclub E's match up quite nicely with the 5000FX phono preamps. The 500Emk2's had the best frequency balance and transparency, but the FIM distortion in practice and the revealing highs were just too much. The NCE tests horribly on FIMD tests now, but does about as well as the Whitelabels in practice. I have to run them at 3.25 grams to get acceptable characteristics. I wonder why the ATP's sounded like crap on it. Might be a capacitance incompatibility. They clearly did not like the preamps...harsh, muddled, and a little lumpy. The mid bass seems to be getting louder over time. NCE's seem to be losing their bloom in the bass and bright highs as they break in.

Last edited by Reticuli : 08-09-2006 at 03:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-09-2006, 03:15 AM
Rotarymadness's Avatar
Rotarymadness Rotarymadness is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 347
Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-25-2006, 09:33 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Well, I just heard back today and they're replacing it with a brand new unit. The shipment back the second time was paid by them and hopefully everything will work out. I also went ahead and ordered a new PPD9000 from Musician's Friend with free shipping. GC in town has to special order them and has only a 7 day return policy on DJ equipment if you can even get them to agree to letting you return it, so I figured MF was a better bet. I'm going to compare the Xone 62, new 5000fx, and PPD9000, then decide which one I'll keep and sell/return the others.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-26-2006, 12:14 AM
DJ_CARY DJ_CARY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 293
Hands Down Xone 62, No brainer!
IMO
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-26-2006, 09:23 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
5000fx has better faders, better crossfader, the effects are better than those A&H analog filters, it's got a sampler, better midrange on the phonos, better meters, the bass is more punchy overall, it's got more outputs, better cueing, lower S/N ratio, and the phonos are more sensitive and less quirky on capacitance issues. The Numark can also be outfitted with a Pro X Fade CF. The Xone 62 has a more accurate/neutral line-level sound, lower defect rates, and slightly more transparency in-the-blend. Since I don't have the 9000 yet I can't compare it to the other two.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-26-2006, 05:48 PM
LuvLatins's Avatar
LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 727
My Adise is Sue them all and Let them Fight it out.

File a small claims action in Court. Sue for the max amount which varies from state to state but most will allow $5,000 Then realize that most businesses cant appear in small claims without an attorney but you can.

Watch how fast the group of them will want to reach an amicable settlement once they get a summons and complaint in the mail.

File a claim dude and never buy from them again.

Good Luck
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-26-2006, 06:43 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Not that I'm actually going to sue them, but if I were do I have to go to the state their company resides in to do it? Why would you say sue for $5000? Are you talking about Deal Monger or Numark? The 5000fx was only $350.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-27-2006, 10:09 PM
jmark jmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: SF
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
I also went ahead and ordered a new PPD9000 from Musician's Friend with free shipping. GC in town has to special order them and has only a 7 day return policy on DJ equipment if you can even get them to agree to letting you return it, so I figured MF was a better bet.

Wait a minute, after all the drama and past problems you described, you ordered yet another Numark product???!!!

I don't mean to be rude here, but this indicates either deeply-seated masochistic tendencies or an insatiable desire for technical drama with equipment. Who has time to deal with this kind of crap?

Also worth noting, Guitar Center and Musician's Friend are the same company. Much better to take your business to a locally-owned audio equipment dealer and build a relationship with them (especially, as seems to be the case, you buy a lot of stuff regularly).
__________________
-mark

http://www.markandrus.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-28-2006, 07:41 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Are they the same company? MF gives free shipping and no sales tax, while the local GC was going to charge sales tax and take over a week to get one. If they were the same company MF would have charged taxes, wouldn't they? My local GC also doesn't allow returns on DJ equipment due to how much DJing is done in town. People will buy gear just for a single gig at a convention or party that's come to town and then bring it right back. I had to get special permission a couple years back to return an SA-5 I didn't like just two days after getting it. I had to convince them that 1) I live here and 2) I hadn't taken it out anywhere. The mixer just sucked, which I guess is why Stanton discontinued it and it was on clearance. MF has a good 45 day return policy that I've never had a problem with.

The reason I ordered the PPD9000 is I like the phono preamps on the new Numarks better (9000 and 5000 use the same ones) than those on the Xone 62 (surprised the hell out of me) and I would prefer a shallow-depth 19" mixer to sit right in front of the XL-7 sequencer. I was very hesitant of getting this model and if it's in any way defective or doesn't live up to the sound of the 5000fx I'll just send the PPD9000 back. Simple as that. If I'm stuck with a 13" tabletop mixer, then I'll just need to get a stand for the sequencer to keep it near. And if the 5000fx is working properly now and the PPD9000 gets sent back, then I sell the Xone 62. I spent several hours detailing it from top to bottom, including alcohol and a sonicare on the knobs, so there won't be any problem reselling it for the same price I paid.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-28-2006, 04:52 PM
DSA.audio's Avatar
DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmark
Wait a minute.....

this indicates either deeply-seated masochistic tendencies....

my vote



MODS: I hate the new rules on post length ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
__________________

.............................
Doolittle & Seymour Associates
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-29-2006, 06:31 PM
mynameismatt's Avatar
mynameismatt mynameismatt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 572
I used to work at the Musician's Friend distribution center. They're the same company but each is ran very differently.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-29-2006, 06:51 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Well that was quick. A brand new A-stock 5000fx just arrived from the west coast warehouse where I believe the newest production runs come in from China. That's where the Axis 8's came in at when they solved several of the problems in the design. Crossing my fingers and doing a little good luck dance...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Well hot damn, everything on it except the SPDIF channels being swapped is perfect. Their engineers are altering the design for future production runs for that quirk, but I guess there was certainly no way for a new run and shipment to California in less than a week. The swapped L/R on the digital out is of no consequence to me, it was just one defect amongst a bunch of others that were mostly much worse. All the ticks are gone except the low level ones when you first hit the FX assign button, but that is to be expected. The biggest problem before was the continued near-clipping ticks even when the unit was just sitting there. The FX button engage tick only maxes out at about -40dB, and A-wieghted it wouldn't even show up. This is actually better than the Xone 62, which minutely cuts the sound when you press the filter button and gives a little noise, necessitating that you hit it in time with the music. Faders are all perfect. Knobs are perfect. All the phono lugs are there. The record out is fine. I missed the low end and midrange on this thing and the effects do indeed sound excellent. Looks like Numark's design is sound; I just got a serious lemon. Gotta try the ATP's and 500EmkII's on it for good measure. The last cart I used on the other one before sending it in was the ATP...serious bass kick.

Last edited by Reticuli : 08-29-2006 at 09:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2006 Wave Music


© Wave Entertainment Group, Inc.