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  #1  
Old 03-20-2010, 01:51 PM
CJ Branda CJ Branda is offline
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New Bozak Mixer Release Date...

Shipping July 2010

http://www.bozak.com/

Very interesting news...
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2010, 01:53 PM
CJ Branda CJ Branda is offline
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I've been checking back on this mixer over the last couple of years now and was well surprised to just find this news a few minutes ago - can't wait for some news/reviews about this mythical creature..!

Last edited by CJ Branda : 03-21-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2010, 02:32 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Out of curiosity, how much is it for the AR and the EQ? Does it include all the phono pre amp for all the channel?

And now for the debate, will it have the same sound and work as the original Bozak? Or will it be like a brand new mixer with a Bozak logo slapped on to it.
I'm sure people know who built the bozak AR-6, so this question has come into my mind!
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2010, 02:53 PM
DjFioreC DjFioreC is offline
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What about price?
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2010, 03:16 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox
Out of curiosity, how much is it for the AR and the EQ? Does it include all the phono pre amp for all the channel?

And now for the debate, will it have the same sound and work as the original Bozak? Or will it be like a brand new mixer with a Bozak logo slapped on to it.
I'm sure people know who built the bozak AR-6, so this question has come into my mind!

I thought it was obvious, this is NOT Bozak..they brought the Bozak name, the new product has noting to do with the old Bozak design other than it will use discrete designs. It will be a completely new thing with the Bozak name slapped on it. It's not really American audio.
Bozak is owned by the same dude who re-issued the Urei 1620 with Soundcraft aka 1620le and he's British.

I am interested though if it will be any good
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Wow, it's the same guy? Didn't know that. Nice upgrades, but I think Rane's 2016S already beat them on the more modern cueing system. Those balance knobs should just be headphone/cue sends. You could also get by with just a simple cue/mix/prgm switch instead of the blend knob this way. Those things always get scratchy and I don't miss it on the Xones as long as there's a split mode. So you'd work the cue send volumes like pfl gains. Oh, and I'd make the cue selector an fx send selector, since it wouldn't be needed. Anyway, it's pretty hard to beat a DJR400, 2016, DJM1000, PPD9000 (if you're lucky to have a good one), or FF4000/6000. To be fair, the PPD is canceled and were never very reliable out of the box. This new "Bozak" will have to be spectacular to stand up in the market with the others still out there. I'm not so sure discrete is enough. Some of the A/D converters, dsps, and ICs out there now are exceptional. Discrete can be very finnicky. The biggest advantage seems to be, in my experience, rediculously low noise floors. Nice for low capacitance phono stages like on the Denon dnx-1700. So the AR-6 is likely to dump all over the 1620LE in the S/N ratio department. Amazing how the audiophile mixer market is actually becoming crowded!
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Last edited by Reticuli : 03-20-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:07 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
Wow, it's the same guy? Didn't know that. Nice upgrades, but I think Rane's 2016S already beat them on the more modern cueing system. Those balance knobs should just be headphone/cue sends. You could also get by with just a simple cue/mix/prgm switch instead of the blend knob this way. Those things always get scratchy

I agree too...

This is the guy

http://www.clubsystemsinternational....405/people.htm

Also worked for Vestax

I think to design a good discrete design you REALLY have to know your shit, this mixer seems to just play on those words Discrete much like marketing valve designs.
Whether this will be true or not we will have to wait until we can hear it and also get it on the test bench.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:36 PM
rs_ rs_ is offline
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I've had some discussions with "Paul" at (new)Bozak about modding the ISO-X. (For the record, I thought the ISO-X was too "shy" at first but it has grown and grown on me, especially on bigger systems. I find it should be approached more as a "program EQ" than an isolator, for the best results. Also, it is imperative to use the XLR ins and outs for the best sound. It makes everything that goes through it sound better, maybe a little more "imaged".)

I'm definitely going to take a close look at this mixer though I'm very happy with my 1620LE. (I'm honestly surprised that this is going to actually come out.)

rs
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2010, 10:38 PM
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nitred nitred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinyl_junkie
I thought it was obvious, this is NOT Bozak..they brought the Bozak name, the new product has noting to do with the old Bozak design other than it will use discrete designs. It will be a completely new thing with the Bozak name slapped on it. It's not really American audio.
Bozak is owned by the same dude who re-issued the Urei 1620 with Soundcraft aka 1620le and he's British.

I am interested though if it will be any good

Cosign 100%

This seems to be a case where the prestigious badge is worth more than the gear it's on.
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Last edited by nitred : 03-20-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:47 AM
moorey moorey is offline
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"This seems to be a case where the prestigious badge is worth more than the gear it's on."

Bingo. A badge is not a Bozak right?

I just feel this doesn't push the envelope, 2 years of stalling... set the romance aside this is pure hype.
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:05 AM
rs_ rs_ is offline
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I think you guys have the long knives out before you've gathered the necessary facts, since you're so upset about the reuse of the name. (It's called "prejudice".)

rs
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  #12  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:09 PM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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I do not think this is a matter of being prejudice. Let’s look at the SHELBY MUSTANG. The new vehicle is produced by FORD and has very little in common with the original car other than eye appeal. The name SHELBY attracts buyers to a new product that is well made but is not even close to its predecessor. However FORD motor is the original producer and owner along with SHELBY who designed this car back in the 1960s. I have more respect for someone who brings something to the market place with their own name or brand on it if they are not the originator or were associated with the original company. I see no problem with a mixer made by Audio for the Soul or Paul Morrissey’s with his own original logo on it. I think he should take pride in his own products and not continue to copy company’s names to sell audio. Would UREI LE owners be disappointed if the face plate did not say UREI? It is still a mixer redone by Paul Morrissey and most people who have them like them even though they are not original UREI mixers. By using his own company name or brand years ago he would by now have established a respected brand name and reputation. Look at the new mixer that John K. and Mario G. will soon have in the post titled “Bozak Modified Mixers”. It is being designed by a couple of original Bozak employees, and because of all the changes (not because someone jumped on an expired logo or brand name) they elected to use their own company name and logo in consideration for production. The mixer from the new named Bozak Company is a long time coming and was hyped way too many times. It may well be a quality mixer but after all this time I will wait for actual owner reviews before I consider buying one. Just my 2 cents.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:59 PM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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Why dont we just let the mixer speak for itself when it comes out ..... already we are saying its a mixer with a Bozak badge on it. That is obvious but lets wait and hear it before its rubbished. I know Paul he is a decent guy ...... he has serviced Bozak's and Urei's for years he isnt some chump who has decided to by a fashionable name and put out a piece of crap.


Last edited by Leeee : 03-21-2010 at 01:01 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2010, 01:15 PM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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Although i do agree he could have put his name to it.

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  #15  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:05 PM
Captainjr Captainjr is offline
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I think you are misinterpreting my response. I am not calling anyone a chump or insinuating a non quality product. I believe from what I read on their web site that this is in fact a re-designed or upgrade mixer from Bozak original specifications. They indicate there are changes to bring it up to the standards of today. That to me means something's are changed. It is not a reissue of the original mixer. This has nothing to do with the original Bozak manufacturer company and that is all I am stating. The facts be know original Bozak employees I talked to hope that it is a success and does not degrade the name that took years to establish as a premier audio company in America. You have to admit it is kind of funny though how this is suddenly coming out right now after talk of several Original Bozak Manufacture Employees doing and showing their own mixer.

Last edited by Captainjr : 03-21-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2010, 04:04 PM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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Yes i agree lets hope the mixer is up to scratch.
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:24 AM
Pern Pern is offline
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"the AR-6 has been designed first and foremost for unsurpassed sound and build quality using the original Bozak analogue design circuits."

Just taking the orginal Schematics and replacing active components to modern ones and recalculate the passive etc isn't actually that hard if you know a little about discrete design. That is done in just a couple of days.

I think that more interesting is what component brands and types they use, if they use new modern components or some old ones. Also resistor and caps brands/models.

Anyway, i don't see how using the original schematics with some modern parts should sound bad if it is done well. I was also thinking about this approach when i started my Discrete projects. But i then decided that just having the original functionality wasn't enough, i want to have some of the functionality of modern mixers, but using a high quality discrete design as the base.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:32 AM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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Is it going to be made in China like the LE was if I'm not mistaken?
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:09 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Leeee
Although i do agree he could have put his name to it.

You had to expect things like this to happen. This isn't a case of a GOOD designer being inspired by a traditional classic, updating it, and putting his name on it, along with with the Bozak name. They are claiming to BE Bozak!

If you really want to cut to the chase, The Bozak company name was the last name of the person who founded the Bozak company. RUDY BOZAK.

So, what does this NON American Bozak sound like? I have no idea, and I will wait to hear it, before I give, or even try to form any opinion. But will I judge it using my original Bozak mixers as a reference? YES I WILL.

Lets be honest, why was the Bozak name chosen to be used? To sell product based upon a legendary brand name, and make money. This doesn't mean the mixer can't be good, but don't tell me using the Bozak name was strictly for the LOVE of the original product. Hell no, you know it is to make the product move.

Therefore, I, personally, offer NO opinion on this British Bozak of any kind at this point in time. But, if you asked for my honest feeling on using the Bozak name for this mixer? I would tell you they could have and should have named it something else, and added " Inspired and based on the Bozak"!
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  #20  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:04 AM
Pern Pern is offline
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If i would make a new discrete mixer commercially with all the time and costs involved i wouldn't do a 100% clone with some modern parts today. I personally think that doing that is more a "clever" marketing approach than actually thinking about design/functionality and how to best use todays components. Also it is not possible to make a new clone that sounds 100% as the original one without using the same components.

But sure, when i started i also looked at the original schematics a lot, and the original design is so simple. Thats the beauty of it. From a design point of view i think that the only real interesting part of the original bozak is the Summing amp design. This is really clever design mostly used in old tube designs. That is the part i re-use a lot but i updated it to a modern design using new parts.

The original design have inspired me a lot, but more in designing things as simple as possible than just copying the schematics. When it comes to actually learning stuff i have learnt much more from studing designs/books etc from great designers like John Linsley Hood, Nelson Pass etc.
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Last edited by Pern : 03-22-2010 at 11:58 AM.
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:27 AM
DjFioreC DjFioreC is offline
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doesn't anyone knows anything about prices?
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  #22  
Old 03-22-2010, 11:19 AM
CJ Branda CJ Branda is offline
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No pricing yet... but not expecting it to come cheap (at least not at the great price which hard to find records in the UK were selling the 1620LE at).
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  #23  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:38 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pern
If i would make a new discrete mixer commercially with all the time and costs involved i wouldn't do a 100% clone with some modern parts today. I personally think that doing that is more a "clever" marketing approach than actually thinking about design/functionality and how to best use todays components. Also it is not possible to make a new clone that sounds 100% as the original one without using the same components.

But sure, when i started i also looked at the original schematics a lot, and the original design is so simple. Thats the beauty of it. From a design point of view i think that the only real interesting part of the original bozak is the Summing amp design. This is really clever design mostly used in old tube designs. That is the part i re-use a lot but i updated it to a modern design using new parts.

The original design have inspired me a lot, but more in designing things as simple as possible than just copying the schematics. When it comes to actually learning stuff i have learnt much more from studing designs/books etc from great designers like John Linsley Hood, Nelson Pass etc.
Somebody send this man a cigar!

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  #24  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:07 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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I suspect Paulís responsibilities at Vestax had a lot more to do with marketing and public relations than heíd care to (here comes a pun) advertise. It would explain his continuing preoccupation with branding worth.

"Morrissey Bozak" or "Bozak By Morrissey" would have been a more respectable route. Otherwise you can't help that Asia-acquired branding vibe like Oxy, Westinghouse, or Gli. Itís a separate issue from the mixer itself, but open for critique.

Not that it's totally germane or all-encompassing, but did he have to purchase the "Bozak" name to get the rights to the design?

Still, from the article he seems like a cool person with a passion for stuff.
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2010, 11:02 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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I asked earlier, but can anyone confirm if Bozak stuff is handmade in the UK or it's a China product? I'm just curious as I thought the LE's were all made in China although I might be wrong about this.
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