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  #1  
Old 04-20-2011, 12:00 PM
Balaroue Balaroue is offline
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The bass police are coming....

My local PD showed up over the weekend with a slp meter. From the proper distance, I was well within the limits. They told me what they have doesnít measure bass, but they are working on getting one that does. My place isnít that loud at all. Iím on a commercial street, with a river behind the building and nothing to worry about on either side. I have train tracks across the street from the front, with homes beyond them (about 200 yards away). It seems they feel a slight vibration & a bit of boom boom.

My subs are earthquakes. At the moment, half of them face the front (towards the homes). I can probably reduce the problem a little with relocating the cabinets. I know its omni directional, but the horns are a bit less so. Wallís are 18" cinder, and I have an interior wall 10' in front of that, so thereís a decent void. The only place I get leakage other then bass is through the doors (at least it sounds like it walking outside - and itís not much).

Other then trying different locations for the cabís, does anyone have any tips for keeping the bass in the building? Would building short walls behind the cabinets help? Cardioid set ups?
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  #2  
Old 04-20-2011, 07:41 PM
johnpuga1982 johnpuga1982 is offline
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Knowledge is power, so you should look up what the Massachusetts Penal Code has to say about noise. Once you find that, print it out and keep it on locations.

Then you want to read what your local municipal code has to say about noise. You can find that at the link below.

http://www.municode.com/
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:09 AM
ves ves is offline
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for a start by trying decoupling them from direct contact with the floor/walls to prevent vibration transfer (i heard of some spring designs somewhere i don’t know how they perform though). If you are thinking of constructing a wall, i would suggest using rigid fiberglass it seems it works the best plus it's cheap as a material.
Here is some info
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
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  #4  
Old 04-21-2011, 05:35 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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how much sound is escaping through the roof?
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  #5  
Old 04-21-2011, 05:49 PM
mg75 mg75 is offline
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- sound absorbing curtains, panels and foam. everywhere.
- oversized corner bass-traps.
- extra layer of sound absorbing sheetrock.
- contributing to the campaign of the ruling political party.
- employing retired police chiefs as "consultants".
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  #6  
Old 04-21-2011, 05:54 PM
mg75 mg75 is offline
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and...
- get to know your neighbors. they are always VIP.
- someone called the police. find out who complained and take care of it.
- slp meters measure from 20hz to 20khz (even the radioshack ones). don't believe everything the police is telling you.
- get a good lawyer that knows local cabaret and licensing laws.
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:55 AM
Balaroue Balaroue is offline
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Thank you for the replies!

Ves, that’s my first move... they’re located in the back corners so my first thing is to relocate them all to the front side (10' from the interior wall) firing towards the back. The roof... good question... but it’s a quonset, and the bulding is 20k sq ft. From walking up in the rafters I don’t think it’s much... in addition, my cabs are folded horns (coupled) which tends to reduce the upper throw. Ceiling tiles are 1" thick & heavy, I believe they work well (they’re very old).

My thought was to build a 3 sided box around the subs out of wood covered in sheetrock, and surround that with concrete block behind that. Face all the SL’d towards the back & away from facing the neighborhood. Cover the steel doors with something (fireproof) or replace them with better insulated ones. I just don’t know if building that wall behind/around the subs will provide any benefit???

The plus on the folded horn’s is they do throw far... the downside is they throw far! If I wasn’t in a freestanding building, the tenants 3 doors down would feel it more then I do. Never ending waves.

I with you MG... I’ve donated by building/services to the PD for 15 years. It’s a good relationship, I run a safe place & they know it. How do those curtains work, have you tried them? I’ve never noticed any foams that do much outside of limiting the echos.

My local code:
(1) Noise measured in excess of 50 dBa between the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. or in excess of 70 dBa at all other hours; or (2) Any noise plainly audible at a distance of 100 feet or, in the case of loud amplification devices or similar equipment, noise plainly audible at a distance of 100 feet from its source by a person of normal hearing.
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2011, 06:29 AM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Get on the roof. Considering how much energy comes out of the relatively small hole of a ported sub, all you need is one breach in your ceiling or roof. Something could be vibrating sympathetically and is now your problem, not the subs themselves. If you are coupling the subs in the horizontal plane, then you are only potentially affecting their horizontal dispersion. Only stacking subs will reduce vertical dispersion. just how many subs are being coupled?

At this point, curtains are nto going to do much. Better sealing doors and windows will. For a loft party locale in the middle of an urban residential area, I gained 10dB just by using standard silicon tubes to seal a window wall shut. There was already a wall separating the windows from the dancefloor.

i dont see what building anything around the subs will accomplish besides potentially giving you more bass. 182 thick walls should be blocking a substantial amount. In the end, it might just be the seals of windows and doors where you need ot focus
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2011, 03:01 AM
Fred Bissnette Fred Bissnette is offline
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fuck the bass police fuck them in there stoopit asses!!!!!!!!!!!!


hahahaha hope it works out man

i have been lowering the db level in my rig over the last three years its no longer a boat race for me just nice full sound that has some weight to it

peas
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2011, 07:09 AM
Richi Richi is offline
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SPL meters commonly measure in a limited range and will slope of at each end of the spectrum.

31.5Hz - 8000Hz is the general range of handheld SPL meters. Noise complaints are usually measured A-Weighted which rolls the bass of even further.
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  #11  
Old 04-24-2011, 11:13 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BxBs4f4RIU&feature=fvst
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2011, 11:43 AM
Balaroue Balaroue is offline
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der geile ami, In regards to stacking, would laying them on they're sides decrease the vertical enough to bother with? The mouth will be larger, which wont help... but maybe laying them </ \> would help? No good keys to show that, but think of the typical V shape, and reverse it.

Last night I took a walk across the street, past the next parking lot, up the hill, over the train tracks, across the next street to reach the homes, and yes, I could hear the beat clearly. It wasn't loud my any means, but I could certainly hear it. A car drove by & blocked the noise entirely. The bad news is I guess they do hear it. The good news is I doubt it's ever loud enough to be in violation. That doesn't mean I wont address it... I don't want to disturb the neighbors.

I'll try various placements, do what I can on the doors & bleed spots. If that doesn't help enough, I'll look into non-horn subs... which I'm thinking will make the waves travel less (and sadly, not cover my floor).
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2011, 04:26 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Enough ported subs to create the ouput you currently have from the horns is still going to travel to the neighbors. I've done an event in a building hudrens of meters away from anyone to be bothered in the dead of winter (meanign windows are closed) and we still had to turn down once it got late. Bass was provided by 8 eaw sb750.

Further, since you are using earthquakes, using double 18s to get the output oyu need will give you the additional grief of playing half an octave lower and those deeper frequencies will be even less contained by your building. you can high pass them, but I would still invest more effort into windows and doors.

im sure you will find a solution. One club I used ot work with had 8 turbosound tse218s and through door vestibules and such could get as loud as it wanted inside, while perfectly acceptable 50m away
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2011, 08:02 PM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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Hi.

Bass waves are large and amplify once there are enough boundaries. If the commercial area is quiet at night, it is going to be hard for neighbours to not detect the bass.

You can either turn down the bass, or try positioning the cabinets individually, facing each other so the bass stays on the dance floor. This can, at times, cancel the bass outside the parameter. The further away the cabinets are from boundaries the lower the chance the bass will travel. You will also need to start rolling off any frequencies ranging from 30-55 Hz.

Do keep in mind corridors can react as large horns, which will amplify the bass. Also, wind velocity from outdoors can steer the bass to those neighbours complaining.
There is a lot of physics involved and you will need to examine everything.

It may be time to hire a contractor who specialises in SPL minimising in clubs. They will have a full understanding on the building and how it resonates sound within the vicinity.

Double Eighteen cabinets will make matters worse for they can go much lower (
This will lead tolarger/longer bass waves) than two Cerwin Vega Earthquakes. Have you ever considered going heavy on your low-mids and reduce the bass?

Best Regards,
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Last edited by Elliot Thompson : 04-24-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2011, 09:05 PM
Balaroue Balaroue is offline
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Thanks... I guess that rules out the ported dbl 18's. My thought was that they throw shorter, so the wave would be less of an issue at that distance.

Elliot, yes I'm doing that as well. I'm trying out various drivers (15's) and boxes to see if I can increase the lower end of the mid-bass (which will take a while!). I know thats not getting out now (with subs off the noise outside is negligible). I was figuring on increasing that range just above the subs to compensate, that should allow me to lower the subs (which is fine in my venue). I'm also switching amps (looking at itech or mtech's) on the subs to tighten them up. They're on the loose side at the moment, which isn't helping matters.

It's a love-hate relationship with folded horns
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2011, 09:56 AM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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Smile

Hi.

Doing some quick calculations, two Cerwin Vega Earthquakes is usable to around 60 Hz. 60 Hertz is around 19 Feet.

The average Double Eighteen is usable to around 35 Hz. 35 Hertz is around 32 Feet.

That is full space. The wavelengths will increase once boundaries (floors, corners, ceilings & walls) come into play.

The difference amongst the two in terms of tone from a distance perspective is switching from a “boom, boom, boom” sound, to a “rumbling sound.” Rumbling is more vibration. I’ve caused more structural damage with Double Eighteens/Fifteens than Folded Horns on bass.

Double Eighteens are also harder to control than Folded Horns in terms of directing the sound. The bass wave they project is larger than Folded Horns. This is why the concept of cardioids came about.

You will have better luck with folded horns because you can direct the sound where you like. Of course larger bass waves outside the horn’s region (55 – 30 Hz) will be uncontrollable.

Have you tried crossing your low mid cabinets more into the bass region? It may be best to turn off the folded horns and see how much bass you can get out of your low midrange cabinets. If they can get the job done, compare “the throw” of the bass where your neighbours reside using only your low midrange cabinets. If the results are not as strong compared to your Cerwin Vegas, this will be the best way to go.

The low midrange cabinets will work harder and keep the majority of the bass on the dance floor while, the Cerwin Vegas will be driven less to minimise the SPL reaching your neighbours doorstep.

You will need to conduct a lot of testing to find the best solution to your dilemma. Don’t forget to purchase an SPL Meter.

Switching amplifiers will not make a difference under your situation unless you are planning to buy amplifiers with less power than what you are currently using.

Best Regards,
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