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  #1  
Old 06-21-2007, 03:09 PM
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DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
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Richard Long's ways.....

http://www.djforums.com/showpost.php...postcount=3233

Quote:
Something NeverObsolete hasn't mentioned about that crossover design is a trick wich
does address the issue of running mains full range into the same bandwith as the subs and super tweets.
Richard did run a seperate 3 way crossover from the main crossovers full range out, so that
the mains were highpassed and lowpassed therefor they did not overlap frequencies with the subs and
super tweets.
I'm not sure at which point he started doing that though as it was long after
he initially designed that style crossover.

I just stumbled onto something that i found pretty interesting....

when did RLA start using Hi/Lo pass filtering on their fullrange?
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Last edited by DSA.audio : 06-21-2007 at 03:16 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2007, 03:41 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
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I don't know when he started that practice but I believe it was later on as from what I understand he was running the Rane AC23 crossover from the fullrange out of the RLA crossover.

P.S. Anymore of my posts/comments about different sub/speaker designs running in the same pass band you'd like to make an issue out of? I'm certainly no expert and don't claim to be and there are certainly more qualified people here but this is getting annoying. I wish I had just kept my mouth shut lol
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Last edited by Kevin James : 06-21-2007 at 03:43 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2007, 03:48 PM
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I had never read of HPF/LPF being used in **edit** the full range section of RLA designs....

was just curious about when he was using it, and
since you posted the info on another board,
figured you or someone else here could elaborate a bit

do you know what the HPF/LPF were set to to make it so that there
was less overlap?

If i annoy you, please just ignore me....
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Last edited by DSA.audio : 06-21-2007 at 04:17 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
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I am not sure what the HPF/LPF points were set at.

I assume the HPF on the Rane would be set at 100hz since that is where the low out of the RLA starts and I would assume that the LPF on the Rane would be set in accordance to whatever the high out is on the RLA (I'm not sure what the high croosver freq is set at on the RLA).

I would like to put some perspective on the post of mine that you pulled since you only pulled the single post.

This was one post inside a HUGE thread on djforums.com dedicated to the speaker designs of Bill Fitzmaurice. Both myself and NeverObsolete who also happens to be a memeber here use Bill's exellant Tuba 36 sub design. We also happen to be the only 2 people using Bills Tuba subs who are house heads looking to at least TRY to duplicate that big club RLA style sound in a mobile rig. Most people on that forum don't even know who Richard Long is let alone anything about his systems.

I had posted that what I was really interested in was duplicating as close as possible an RLA style stack to which Bill was explaining is totally out dated old technology which I totally disagree with. NeverObsolete had posted that the heart of the RLA system was the RLA crossover, and gave details including the fact that it is a 3 way design with sub, full range, and high out puts to which Bill and several others went off on saying that tops should NOT be run fullrange along with subs and with seperate highs. THAT is why I posted what I did about the fact that Richard in later days ran a seperate crossover from the full range out so that the subs and highs were NOT overlapping with the full range speakers.

Hope that makes more sense.

P.S. It sall good man, no worries.
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Last edited by Kevin James : 06-21-2007 at 04:26 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2007, 07:30 PM
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The X-3000,s full range was always a bandpass full range, with hi and lo pass.
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2007, 08:40 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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There were alot of things Richard Long did that other sound contractors and engineers said was wrong, even back in 1979. But, whose systems did everyone talk about? Even to this day?

Would an RLA system measure up well on a scope? Probably not, but we werent measuring specs, we were dancing to MUSIC. And, Richard had an ear for what sounded good.

However, if you could take alot of that old 70,s and 80,s gear many love the sound of, and measure them, you would see they werrent perfect measuring, but, they sounded good despite what measurements tell you.

Just like speakers, you can read all the freq graphs, and speaker specs you want, but until you LISTEN to the speaker you have no idea of how it sounds.

How many times does someone have a speaker that has all the right measurements, and yet, you dont really like how it sounds?
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2007, 08:47 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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DSA, it would be very eye opening for you if you could measure your Altec 515,s in your A7,s and see what it is they are doing. It might surprise the shit out of you to learn that what you think sounds so good, isnt so attractive on the scope, IF you know what it is your looking at!

Amazing to see how the scope and the ear differ completely in what is what!

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  #8  
Old 06-22-2007, 01:14 AM
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i will have to invite some laptop measurement geeks over....

man they sound so alive, i got some old old mardi gras records at a local shop...

almost made me cry because it was absolutely like "being there"

i was all of a sudden really homesick
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2007, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
The X-3000,s full range was always a bandpass full range, with hi and lo pass.

so i went home tonight & i dug out some paperwork....
looking at the write up my local tech gave me, the X2000 also has HP/LP on the full range output (20Hz/17KHz) set different from the Sub (15Hz) and Tweeter (20KHz) outputs' filters....


i never noticed it before on the paperwork
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Last edited by DSA.audio : 08-06-2007 at 03:59 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2007, 07:04 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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@Clubman5:
100% acknowledge!
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2007, 11:53 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA.audio

man they sound so alive, i got some old old mardi gras records at a local shop...

almost made me cry because it was absolutely like "being there"

i was all of a sudden really homesick
Yeah, I know what you mean. Its like me and my old Altec 421,s years ago they were telling us no, thats an instrument speaker, that midrangey metal dome, etc. But, no matter what, you heard something in here you were looking around the room to see where the musician was! IT WAS SO BELIEVABLE SOUNDING!

But, it wasnt ruler flat, free of non linearities, and other bugaboo distortions, so, therefore wasnt technically correct.

However, it did do this one thing very well, IT SOUNDED LIKE MUSIC!

Heh, wasnt that one of Altecs slogans, guess they knew it too! Altec, The Sound Of Music!

As much as im using newer stuff because I cant get original parts for my Altecs anymore, I miss that stuff, though!

I DID find this one combination of stuff thats starting to work well for me, but, Ill just save this information for another new thread!
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:48 PM
duron tarik duron tarik is offline
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Can't wait for that thread
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2007, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
Yeah, I know what you mean. Its like me and my old Altec 421,s years ago they were telling us no, thats an instrument speaker, that midrangey metal dome, etc. But, no matter what, you heard something in here you were looking around the room to see where the musician was! IT WAS SO BELIEVABLE SOUNDING!

But, it wasnt ruler flat, free of non linearities, and other bugaboo distortions, so, therefore wasnt technically correct.

However, it did do this one thing very well, IT SOUNDED LIKE MUSIC!

Heh, wasnt that one of Altecs slogans, guess they knew it too! Altec, The Sound Of Music!

As much as im using newer stuff because I cant get original parts for my Altecs anymore, I miss that stuff, though!

I DID find this one combination of stuff thats starting to work well for me, but, Ill just save this information for another new thread!

It's been long enuff, can you tell us now?
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2007, 12:17 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverObsolete
It's been long enuff, can you tell us now?
Not ready yet, when I am, I will let you know!

Promise!
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  #15  
Old 06-26-2007, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
Not ready yet, when I am, I will let you know!

Promise!


AnnnnnTicipation is making me wait. lol
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