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  #1  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Zen5656 Zen5656 is offline
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CDJ 96k 24bit?

Hey!
After my exams I will continue recording my vinyl collection in 96k 24bit. It is a bit sad that CDJs still cannot play this quality. CDJ2000 has even now DVDr support so pioneer should built flac support and 96k/24bit electronics as well

Traktor and Serato scratch promote 96k in the first sentence on their websites. But I do not like the Computer handling while DJing I need it physical (digging the UDG) and visual (artwork).

http://serato.com/scratchlive/rane-sl4

Anybody knows about a solution with CDJ with 96kHz support? Thanks..

best,
Zen5656

Last edited by Zen5656 : 02-11-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:17 PM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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The limitation of the Disc (only having the ability to occupy a 24/96 audio file as a means of storage) and 16-bit limitation of a CD Drive will not make it possible.

Why not just embrace new technology instead of trying to find a loophole around old technology?

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  #3  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:19 PM
Zen5656 Zen5656 is offline
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You can burn the "raw" flac file on CDr/DVDr.

I just prefer the handling of a disc and love tapping cue buttons. As soon as I use laptop I get stuck and out of the "bouncing". It is just to focused technically to get lost spiritually.. you get me?
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  #4  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:25 PM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen5656
You can burn the "raw" flac file on CDr/DVDr.

I just prefer the handling of a disc and love tapping cue buttons. As soon as I use laptop I get stuck and out of the "bouncing". It is just to focused to get lost..


Possibly you do not understand what "The limitation of the Disc (only having the ability to occupy a 24/96 audio file as a means of storage)" means for you just repeated what I said.

The amount of DJ MIDI controllers I've seen DJs tapping away using a computer for the past 10 years, there is no reason to focus on CDs anymore especially when 24/96 is the objective.


Best Regards,
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2012, 07:51 AM
ves ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen5656
Hey!

Anybody knows about a solution with CDJ with 96kHz support? Thanks..

best,
Zen5656

downsample / dither to 16 bit 44 kz it should do the trick with no audible loss.
i would be more skeptical about the dac you are using to sample first. rather than the quality of the cdj.
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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You can use DVJ's (http://www.pioneerdjusa.com/gear.aspx?product=DVJ-1000) and burn the files to DVD's. The DVJ-1000 will output 96kHz. I used them a few times in clubs, they're pretty nice, but expensive.

I would tend to agree with Elliot though here in embracing the computer as the current interfaces for Traktor for example will output that resolution natively and sound really good. You can also set up Traktor/Serato to show your album artwork. As someone that held out using CD's until only a year ago, I've found having everything in the computer an amazing and convenient tool. You can set up "crates" or "folders" and organize things very systematically as you would in your cd case. Just my 5 cents...
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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I did notice a few of those DVJs on pioneer USA's website as refurbs....
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2012, 04:52 PM
Disko Ole Disko Ole is offline
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You can also connect a harddrive with wav/aiff files... But I think the limit is 24bit 48kHz here, so you still wont be able to use 96kHz files :-)
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:45 PM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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There is also the ability of using Terabyte Drives instead of inserting and ejecting 4 or 8 GB DVDs which won't hold a lot of information using 24/96 audio files.

Best Regards,
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:54 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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DVJ's do not support the USB / flash drive option as 900/2000 CDJ's do. They only play discs to my knowledge.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:48 AM
Zen5656 Zen5656 is offline
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DVJ-1000 is nice but what format do I have to use for 96/24 then? It seems to be the output von Audio from videos?

A 8 minute 96k/24b flac file (best quality) is 150-160mb. Most of the vinyl in House is 3-4 Tracks so they will fit even on one CD as flac. So I do not get the "you have to use dvd for this quality anyway" argument.

Yeah Laptop solutions are fine if there is a seperate controller. I just do not want to get focused on hitting tiny keyboard keys of a MacBook. Keeping the flow and vibe with the moving/handling of the equipment. A lot of DJs like Louie Vega say that as well so I am not crazy! Anybody can show some interfaces with big buttons to control Traktor/Serate. It should be minimalistic. Up and down buttons to scrollt in the list and play button would be even enough sometimes..
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:22 PM
R_Dub R_Dub is offline
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you can scroll thru your collection in serato using the control knob on the cdj2000 if you use them in HID mode
I rarely have to touch my laptop mid-set. it's great!
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2012, 12:21 PM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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Check this out.. I agree with you and is why ppl. are looking for a more intuitive controller for Traktor. https://www.facebook.com/groups/348363878512617/

To always have to rely on one company for DJ tools like Pioneer, well thats ridiculous. I think their players are overpriced (based on demand) and cheaply made imo. They are the best CD player out there?? but I havent burned a CD in over a year. USB key is great for convenience, but youre still looking at a screen on the CDJ, a smaller screen btw and although it's a nice piece of kit.. the limitations are not worth the $2,000 for one unit.. That's more than a Macbook..

As for recording in your vinyl.. well, almost every vinyl I record in.. If I can find the WAV file and buy it, it almost always is better. Ive had some great results recording vinyl but it depends a lot on the pressing and all the things in the signal chain.. 24/96 or not, it all depends on a lot of different things. If you want to play vinyl, then play vinyl on an analogue turntable.. Its hit and miss and a lot of guess work to try and make a CDJ sound like a Turntable, and it never will??

Right now with Traktor Im missing this intuitive control.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen5656
DVJ-1000 is nice but what format do I have to use for 96/24 then? It seems to be the output von Audio from videos?

A 8 minute 96k/24b flac file (best quality) is 150-160mb. Most of the vinyl in House is 3-4 Tracks so they will fit even on one CD as flac. So I do not get the "you have to use dvd for this quality anyway" argument.

Yeah Laptop solutions are fine if there is a seperate controller. I just do not want to get focused on hitting tiny keyboard keys of a MacBook. Keeping the flow and vibe with the moving/handling of the equipment. A lot of DJs like Louie Vega say that as well so I am not crazy! Anybody can show some interfaces with big buttons to control Traktor/Serate. It should be minimalistic. Up and down buttons to scrollt in the list and play button would be even enough sometimes..

Last edited by charles0322 : 02-16-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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24/96 stereo DVD-V and from flac & wav files really ought to have become the new standard. That said, it is flabbergasting how much standalone digital djing hardware only supports wav and mp3! And sure, that's 16/44.1, but no OGG or FLAC? FLAC should be THE standard that must be supported by ALL gear. Period. End of Story. Nuff said. Wavs cannot be tagged and often are not even played back without glitches. MP3 SUCKS soooooo bad. OGG is tolerable at the higher bitrates, but FLAC is of course perfect. I would be happy if wav support was dropped as a common standard and it was just MP3 (for support of all the crap we have), OGG (because we can hope it gets embraced), and FLAC for everything lossless we have. We can only wish that MP3's are abandoned by people as a compression format, but as a user we obviously require its support in gear. FLAC is no longer some obscure standard, though. It *is* the new common standard for lossless.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2012, 12:10 PM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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mp3 is garbage.. ppl always try to argue with me, i dont care what bit rate. I can hear the difference and I dont care if others dont. I havent used FLAC, and dont mind entering the info for my WAV,s

the music industry isnt concerned with quality music. its about disposable music on transistor radio style devices..

For professionals to use a sub standard codec and try to justify it..I think is laughable. First off, pay for as much of the music as possible, and pay the 1$ more for WAV.. youre fooling yourself by buying or illegally downloading an mp3.

Source is one of the most important things in the signal chain.. So I agree, that recordings should be released in 24/96 format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
24/96 stereo DVD-V and from flac & wav files really ought to have become the new standard. That said, it is flabbergasting how much standalone digital djing hardware only supports wav and mp3! And sure, that's 16/44.1, but no OGG or FLAC? FLAC should be THE standard that must be supported by ALL gear. Period. End of Story. Nuff said. Wavs cannot be tagged and often are not even played back without glitches. MP3 SUCKS soooooo bad. OGG is tolerable at the higher bitrates, but FLAC is of course perfect. I would be happy if wav support was dropped as a common standard and it was just MP3 (for support of all the crap we have), OGG (because we can hope it gets embraced), and FLAC for everything lossless we have. We can only wish that MP3's are abandoned by people as a compression format, but as a user we obviously require its support in gear. FLAC is no longer some obscure standard, though. It *is* the new common standard for lossless.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2012, 01:46 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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The hell with you all :P I just did my first production session and mixdown in 32-bit with Pro Tools 10. The output file is like 300 megs, but who's counting lol.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2012, 08:46 PM
Zen5656 Zen5656 is offline
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2TB harddrive is cheap today. Big file for big man. No compromise.

Great that there is really somebody in here who cares

@Reticuli
THIS on 100%!

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles0322
the music industry isnt concerned with quality music. its about disposable music on transistor radio style devices..

+ they can sell more in mp3 format as (itunes) customer's computer and server can store more. But in 2012 storage is no argument anymore imho.

Another question: did anybody test the new Traktor Scratch Duo/Pro 2 vs. Rane SL 4 - both units who finally have 96/24 support? I mean a test really focusing on this feature. Sound quality and performance, not only the technical specs from the datasheet.

Traktor has the Kontrol X 1. This has buttons to control 2 decks in the software. So if you can handle some easy soldering this could eventually be a VERY great basis for a custom made interface in NYC rack style. Without this embarrassing SYNC button
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:59 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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How are you guys who are defending the WAV standard over FLAC actually tagging your WAVs in a way that can be recognized by everything? Links?
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  #19  
Old 03-04-2012, 03:10 PM
jabas jabas is offline
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I use ALAC as my format. Personally I think it sounds great and tagging and artwork can be added. Happy days.
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  #20  
Old 03-04-2012, 08:10 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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That's supported by even less stuff.
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Last edited by Reticuli : 03-06-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-04-2012, 08:48 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
How are you guys who are defending the WAV standard over FLAC actually tagging your WAVs in a way that can be recognized by everything? Links?

Tagging is really moot in Serato / Traktor. The software database takes care of that. And it's all XML so easily transferable and editable. I use Traktor as my library software as well as sometimes I want to pull up an old techno track I might have recorded off of vinyl and don't want to hear it at it's native 140bpm for example. I have about 5,000 tracks in my Traktor database all organized very nicely at this point. The commenting features in Traktor I find superior over Serato. You can have multiple comment fields. I buy a lot of new stuff as 320 mp3's for playing out but all of my vinyl burns are recorded in wav.
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  #22  
Old 03-05-2012, 06:26 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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So you trying to say you could hear a difference in uncompressed flac against wav?
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:52 AM
Toni Cogin Toni Cogin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
FLAC is no longer some obscure standard, though. It *is* the new common standard for lossless.

Objection!

The fact that keeps FLAC from being/becoming "the" standard for lossless is the lack of support for FLAC in itunes.

Many people (including me) use itunes to organise their music. The possibilities to sort your music in itunes (especially the smart playlists) are imho by far superior to those in traktor. I've never worked with serato, but I would guess its tight itunes integration has many of its users use itunes as well. Add the fact that Macs are quite popular in the dj/music business and you know why FLAC isn't really widespread.


Another reason that lossless in general isn't common in DJing this is that not only the music industry but also many DJs don't actually care about the quality of the music they play. Seeing people play 128 kbps youtube-rips leaves the discussion whether there is an (audible) difference between 320 kbps mp3 and wave/lossless and if that contingent difference is worth the extra $$ to nerdy, audiophile enthusiast like on this forum

Let's be honest: if there was a (significant) demand for lossless audio files we'd probably see a corresponding supply by now, as i really can't imagine online stores would want to miss out on the extra money at practically no extra effort.
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Cogin
Another reason that lossless in general isn't common in DJing this is that not only the music industry but also many DJs don't actually care about the quality of the music they play. Seeing people play 128 kbps youtube-rips leaves the discussion whether there is an (audible) difference between 320 kbps mp3 and wave/lossless and if that contingent difference is worth the extra $$ to nerdy, audiophile enthusiast like on this forum

Possibly your interaction with DJs are not professionals for, the professionals ones I’ve encountered on the Internet stemmed from having subscriptions to companies such as Promo Only (and a few others which name escapes me) when CDs were the only means attain popular music. They would create their own audio rips using Exact Audio Copy.

Another possibility could be surrounded with a lot of DJs who do not own equipment that is large enough to hear a significant difference and settle for 128 MP3 files. The only way such DJs get an idea of what their audio files sounds like is if they get the opportunity to play in a large club offering a good sounding system.

By that time, they are so mesmerised hearing themselves mix on a large sound system of such a quality they assume 128 MP3 is more than enough for the job.

One of the things I’ve noticed about the Internet, there is the plethora of smaller hobbyist DJs that are very vocal on DJ forums which, does not reflect the professional DJ’s concept who are the least vocal on such topics.

Maybe the professional DJs are too busy or it is based on competition. I would imagine there are some professional DJs that rather not help those who focus solely on 128 MP3 files and use it as a means of leverage to separate the novice from the professional. I highly doubt those who focus on getting 128 kbps rips from youtube are beyond bedroom DJs.

Best Regards,
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Last edited by Elliot Thompson : 03-05-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:26 AM
Estacy Estacy is offline
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Generally most professional DJ's use average to good quality music, but a system is only as good as its weakest link, and unfortunately most systems (in commercial clubs that is) have several weakest links. Like redlining DJ's, or systems set to boost the 4k range ruining the music.
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