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-   -   A home speaker particularly suited for house music? (http://www.wavemusic.com/community/showthread.php?t=13692)

Barfunkel 05-26-2013 11:34 AM

A home speaker particularly suited for house music?
 
So, I'm planning a new home DJ setup and everything else has pretty much been decided, but I'm unsure about what speakers to get.

Here's the requirements:

- Passive, as I want to drive them from a separate amp
- Smooth highs and mids
- Big, old school-sounding bass, so I don't need a subwoofer
- Flattering and musical
- No "studio monitor sound", ie. not scientifically accurate
- And last but not least, they must sound particularly awesome with house music. People get erections when I put a Kerri Chandler record on-type of awesome.

I've been to hifi/high end fairs and stuff and to my ears, many of today's speakers are very accurate and unforgiving and don't sound "house", whatever that means. They seem to manufacture most speakers for listening and analyzing classical, prog rock and jazz music. Or at least that's the impression I have. I could be wrong of course.

I've been thinking about the Yamaha NS-1000's, as they seem popular with DJ's, among others.

Budget? A few thousand euros/dollars.

I know asking for speaker advice online is a bit silly as tastes wary, but it's not like I'll buy something unlistened. I just want some suggestions, so I can go to hifi stores and not have to go through literally thousands of different speakers.

paul1979 05-26-2013 12:02 PM

Cornscala
Hybrid between Klipsch La Scala and Klipsch Cornwall, you get the massive bass from the cornwall and the horn from the La Scala, significantly cheaper than the La Scala, however you will have to build cabinets yourself (they supply drawings) or get someone to build for you

paul1979 05-26-2013 12:03 PM

http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala.html

bartonn 05-26-2013 02:04 PM

I know they are not true home hi-fi, but I bought a pair of Yamaha DSR-115's for event use last fall, and then ended up needing back surgery. So I am at least for the time being not shleping these 75 pound speakers around. Long story short I ended up setting them up inside, as my main amp speaker combo developed some issues. I have to say they sound really great. They are musical, when listening to jazz and blues, and they kick when listening to house and hip hop. They have a modern thump, but a smooth midrange. I would pair them with the yamaha dsr-118 sw I have in the basement, but the neighbors would probably hire a hit man to take me out.

Estacy 05-26-2013 04:29 PM

if you want a system that gives you erections with house music, a subwoofer is a must though. It adds so much 'umph' to the sound its amazing! Otherwise you're going to need really big speakers, might as well get a subwoofer.

2nd hand JBL horns would work too, and they 4xxx range of speakers can be had for all kinds of prices.

Laurin 05-27-2013 04:41 AM

Could you tell us more about your room?

Barfunkel 05-27-2013 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurin
Could you tell us more about your room?


Currently just a standard living room with no acoustic treatment. In the future I will have a dedicated space though, with acoustic panels, basstraps, all that jazz. This project (aka building my dream DJ'ing setup) is a slow one, it'll take me a couple of years to obtain all the things and the room I need. I'm just currently gathering information about all the options.

Barfunkel 05-27-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estacy
if you want a system that gives you erections with house music, a subwoofer is a must though. It adds so much 'umph' to the sound its amazing! Otherwise you're going to need really big speakers, might as well get a subwoofer.


I have bad experiences with small, cheap-ish subwoofers. I haven't heard one I liked yet, I much prefer the sound of just stereo speakers, music sounds somehow more coherent with them. Note: I'm not looking for huge wall of bass that rattles windows and walls, just something that fills a standard-sized living room nicely.

It's different with club sound systems of course, but I'm not building one of those.

bossa nolyx 05-27-2013 09:37 AM

What's wrong when modern loudspeaker engineers use modern materials and electronics that create a much more accurate sound?

Your interpretation of modern, technically correct sound is very negative. Through active frequency separation, we are now able to simply linearize the frequency and phase response in any home setup and to create a substantially uniform listening environment. What now happens is that old tracks mastered on bass-heavy sound systems today sound a bit thin on linearized systems.

But this has nothing to do with the manufacturers wanting to let the listener dissect the music analytically. Modern systems have completely objective advantages and bring life to music that was previously not possible. And it has nothing to do with classical music or jazz. Only that also 40 years ago classical music was recorded with great effort and a good monitor. That this was not the case in most house music tracks, we get to feel 20 years later.

Of course you can buy the "old flavor" at home to get happy. But for that you do not have to spend so much money. Since you can also buy very high quality modern speakers for house and tweak the sound (objectively) worse.

Just my opinion.




Tell us more about the room. Where exactly are the speakers standing, where exactly are you? Attempt to describe the situation as accurately as possible, if you want to spend so much money wisely.

Barfunkel 05-27-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossa nolyx
What's wrong when modern loudspeaker engineers use modern materials and electronics that create a much more accurate sound?

Your interpretation of modern, technically correct sound is very negative. Through active frequency separation, we are now able to simply linearize the frequency and phase response in any home setup and to create a substantially uniform listening environment. What now happens is that old tracks mastered on bass-heavy sound systems today sound a bit thin on linearized systems.

But this has nothing to do with the manufacturers wanting to let the listener dissect the music analytically. Modern systems have completely objective advantages and bring life to music that was previously not possible. And it has nothing to do with classical music or jazz. Only that also 40 years ago classical music was recorded with great effort and a good monitor. That this was not the case in most house music tracks, we get to feel 20 years later.

Of course you can buy the "old flavor" at home to get happy. But for that you do not have to spend so much money. Since you can also buy very high quality modern speakers for house and tweak the sound (objectively) worse.

Just my opinion.



Nothing wrong with the modern, accurate speakers, it's just a personal, aesthetic choice. The last hifi fair I went to, I must have listened like 30 different speakers (ranging from a few hundred to 25k a pair) and I found just one suitable pair I liked (by Atohm, and those were like 7k a pair). Everything else left me cold.

I just want something different, that's all. It doesn't need to be vintage, I'm sure there are modern speakers with the sound I'm after too, I just don't know what brands to look for, hence the topic.

And besides, I already have a pair of accurate studio monitors, Focal CMS65's. They're pretty nice (I far rate them over, say, similarly priced Genelecs), I just want something even nicer and flattering, for enjoying music that sometimes isn't produced so well.


Quote:

Tell us more about the room. Where exactly are the speakers standing, where exactly are you? Attempt to describe the situation as accurately as possible, if you want to spend so much money wisely.

The current room is a standard living room, not very large (maybe 4x6m), two walls of stone, two walls of plywood (or something, not sure what the correct english term is). Not very nice acoustically, but nothing I can do about it atm.

I'm primarily shopping for speakers for my future room though, which I do not know the specifics of yet.

bretflute 06-03-2013 05:41 PM

what amp are you going to use??? any jbl box with 15" woofers will give you plenty of thump... big ol bozak speakers take care of business... fostex made some great coaxial cabs(but lower power)... marantz had some nice speakers... klipsch has already been mentioned... the home Market was filled with good sounding options... but when pushed hard... most sound pretty bad or blow up easily... also foam surrounds deteriorate faster on consumer level gear... do you plan to use a consumer level eq also?? i love the ones that light up all the sliders and have level meters!!!

charles0322 06-04-2013 01:23 AM

jbl L100 or 4311

12" driver takes care of bass

Barfunkel 06-04-2013 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretflute
what amp are you going to use???


Probably will get an Accuphase integrated amp (perhaps the E-460, 2x180W into 8 ohms, should be enough for my uses), unless some really nice vintage amp shows up in local 2nd hand hifi stores, when I'm doing my shopping.

Quote:

do you plan to use a consumer level eq also?? i love the ones that light up all the sliders and have level meters!!!

Untypical for a high end amp, the Accuphase actually has bass and treble controls, so I won't be needing an external EQ. Or at least I have no plans to get one, other than very likely the ARS crossover (and mixer).

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I'll check those out when I have the chance!

Panotaker 06-04-2013 10:32 AM

I have a pair of Onix Mini Stratas that sound and look fantastic.

Lime Twig 06-05-2013 12:47 PM

+1 on Paul1979 and Charles0322's suggestions.

Klipsch Cornwall (less efficiency, more bass)

Klipsch La Scala (less bass, more efficiency)

JBL L-100 / 4310 / 4311 / 4312

You wanna spend more? Look into the monsters of the 70s-80s JBL studio monitor range: 4350, 4345, 4340... those will give anyone an erection.

Estacy 06-05-2013 04:46 PM

and a very empty wallet...

misterharrison 06-06-2013 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estacy
and a very empty wallet...

Indeed...

Barfunkel 06-06-2013 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterharrison


Is that a typical price for those JBL speakers? I'm asking because the refurbisher company (Kendrick Sound) are also selling Yamaha NS-1000's for 5500USD - which is like 2-3 times the price they usually go for.

misterharrison 06-06-2013 02:48 AM

Well the market is rather inflated in Japan as classic JBL monitors have quite a following over there.

However all the big JBLs seem to have developed big price tags: here are some 4333As in the US.

Here are some of the big 4350 bad boys in France. Eye-wateringly expensive.

If you can find some beaten up L65s, you might get a more reasonable price and you'll get 90% of the way to the sound.

DSA.audio 06-06-2013 08:06 AM

people seem to really enjoy the project array units...

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/94

Lime Twig 06-06-2013 05:17 PM

Kenrick's prices are very, very high. Both because they are Japanese and because they do complete overhauls on their speakers.

The big JBLs are certainly expensive but don't take those prices as evidence. If you want to know more, go to the audioheritage site and look through the classic JBL serial numbers to familiarize yourself with the various models. There are many smaller ones than the ones I mentioned.

If I had "a couple grand" for speakers, I'd certainly consider a bad-ass three way JBL!

(even though last time I spent "a couple grand", I bought Klipschorns, and couldn't be happier :D)

Lime Twig 06-06-2013 05:19 PM

Looks like the last pair of 4333's that sold on ebay went for 2,500, and they were in immaculate shape. So, there's a baseline.

charles0322 06-07-2013 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime Twig
Looks like the last pair of 4333's that sold on ebay went for 2,500, and they were in immaculate shape. So, there's a baseline.


thats a decent price, but Japan is not a good indicator, usually Cali there seems to be stuff there that comes up on sites here ad there. I think it sounds awesome with a good amp and especially with dance music. I always loved this sound.

1620_nz 06-07-2013 02:49 AM

I was thinking of getting some 15" Tannoys, maybe the 'Memory' model for home use. Are the big Tannoys pretty reliable?

Estacy 06-07-2013 10:44 AM

any speaker from a renowed manufacturer is reliable, since theres really not much that can go wrong. I've heard several Tannoys,and they sound really, really amazing!

Some older speakers do have foam surrounds, and those tend to rot. You can get them replaced with linnen/cloth or something for not too much money.


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