Wave Music Community Board

Wave Music Community Board (http://www.wavemusic.com/community/index.php)
-   Tech Talk for Gearheads (http://www.wavemusic.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   E&S DJR400 Send/Return Question (http://www.wavemusic.com/community/showthread.php?t=11628)

TheGood 03-17-2011 11:13 AM

E&S DJR400 Send/Return Question
 
This is my fist post here, been reading the forum for a while now and I'm totaly amazed from the knowlege you all have on gear so rare and exotic, that you will probably see a couple of times in your life! Great community you have here!

So, to my problem:

A few weeks ago I had the chance to play with one DJR with sent/return on each channel and I got a bit confused.

I conected a Pioneer FX Unit on the mixer, by turning the front little send knobs on each channel, the IN on the FX Unit was increasing and the other little knob at the back of the mixer was increasing the return signal that was coming out of the FX.

I couldn't find a way to isolate the original signal and listen only to the signal that was returning to the mixer through the FX unit. All the FX was going on top of the original, there was no way to seperate them. I had in my mind that the little knobs on each channel would work like a Dry/Wet switch, but they were working only as a gain for the send.

Was I doing something wrong? Are the send/return on an E&S work in a way I didn't understand or there might be a problem with the mixer?

If anyone have used them and can tell me how it worked for them will be really helpful.

bossa nolyx 03-17-2011 03:05 PM

That is what professionals call "aux buss"

You split the signal (on many mixers - not many dj mixers - you can switch between pre fader and post fader) and send it to a buss. All 4 channels of the DJR go to this bus and the fx pot is the gain for every channel. The aux return buss is summed with the main buss.

That is the absolute standard way of mixing effects to your main signal.

TheGood 03-17-2011 04:51 PM

Interesting... I know what you mean, I've seen it on other mixers but as "Aux".

If thats the case here, I can't think of a way to use it with lets say another isolator or even the Pioneer EFX-1000, maybe a couple fx could kind of work but is it really posible to use them like that? Wont you get a constant flanger?

Is there a point on having that type of send/return on a club mixer? With what gear can you use it?

bossa nolyx 03-17-2011 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGood
Interesting... I know what you mean, I've seen it on other mixers but as "Aux".

That's it! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGood
Wont you get a constant flanger?

No, if you use analog equipment you won't have any time delay. Digital effekts have a time delay caused by a/d converting. This can sound like a flanger effect, when it has about 1 - 10ms
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGood
If thats the case here, I can't think of a way to use it with lets say another isolator or even the Pioneer EFX-1000, maybe a couple fx could kind of work but is it really posible to use them like that?

...

Is there a point on having that type of send/return on a club mixer? With what gear can you use it?

Like I said, this is the STANDARD way of using effects. You should differentiate between effects and dynamics/EQ. An isolator is no FX! It's an EQ! For an EQ you normaly use an INSERT send/return because you want to substitude the original signal by the EQ signal.

Effects are everything like hall, delays (flanger, phaser, chorus), tremolo......
Effects are normaly summed with the original signal, because you normally need the reference signal for a delay for example.




The DJR has no insert send/return because it has an internal isolator. It is not the concept of this mixer to use it rack mountet with an additional 19" isolator. It is a "PORTABLE" rotary dj mixer. If somebody's asking for an installation mixer, then he could order the djr100.

The djr400 has a perfect concept for what it is made for! It is NO mixer for big installations! You have a great iso onboard, aux per channel an a small format for travelling. That's what it was made for.

Richi 03-17-2011 08:56 PM

The send/return per channel does exactly what is designed to do. You can use whatever effects box you desire, if you want to hear that effect on a particular channel all you do is turn the send pot on that channel and you have your effect mixed with the output of that channel.

The only thing that would be nice would be to monitor the effect on the mixer. If you did want to do this it could be done by using a headphone amp prior the mixer and coming straight from the effects unit, then back out into the mixers return. This approach would mean you would need two sets of headphones. Else split the signal with a y cable and go into a spare channel if it's not being used.

I have a 5th channel on mine that i can use if i want to monitor.

TheGood 03-17-2011 09:29 PM

Got all of your points, I can understand now the use of it perfectly.

I was a bit confused mainly cause all the FX was coming out really low, a bit buried in the music, but I guess that might be cause I usually plug it in an Insert S/R with all the dry/wet done by the EFX. If I tweak a bit the parameters probably will get the same results.

Don't get my commets wrong, I totally love that mixer, didn't wanted to sound like I was criticising it, just couldn't figure it out.

Thanks a lot for the enlightenment, really appreciate your help!!

Richi 03-18-2011 05:47 AM

I use the following procedure for setting mine up.
  1. Insert the Effects unit into the send/return channels.
  2. Roughly set the levels, inlcuding WET/DRY on the Effects
  3. Put some music on
  4. On the DJR400 open the return level to full
  5. On the DJR400 open the send level on one channel to full
  6. Now start adjusting the effects units various levels until you get the desired level and maybe go a little too loud
  7. Adjust the return of DJR400 to reduce the level, in case you need some gain later
  8. Now you just use the sends and leave the effects unit alone apart from adjusting the actual effects
  9. Enjoy the music and add some spice with the send's on the DJR400.

T. Tauri 03-18-2011 06:24 AM

If you have a spare mixer channel, you can plug the EFX return into that, then you can cue and eq and play with the volume of the wet signal very easily.

Peece,
T. Tauri

Ross H 01-04-2014 06:28 PM

I am considering buying an eventide - Timefactor delay unit to go with my DJR 400 as the Moogerfooger 104M delay unit is too expensive for me. I've seen and heard the timefactor with a DJR and it sounds pretty decent.

I believe the timefactor is digital...will this cause a flange effect due to a time delay as described in the posts above? I never noticed this in the demo I heard.

I presume the Moogerfooger will have no delay as its analog?

Thanks

Ross

TheGood 01-06-2014 05:28 PM

The problem I had with the pioneer FX unit was when I wanted to use the pioneers WET/DRY knob. If you plan on using the E&S send/return knobs in front of the mixer, even with digital delay I dont believe you are going to have issues.

Ross H 01-22-2014 01:06 PM

Here is a couple of clips of the eventide timefactor with the djr. This is just a basic demo and I've yet to learn the delay unit properly. Please note this was recorded on my iPhone and the sound quality isn't the best

http://vimeo.com/m/84628331

https://vimeo.com/m/84628827


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2006 Wave Music